Subterranean Press

[dannyboy121070]

I'm tempted with these dinged books and the prices are great for reader copies, but, on the other hand, I'm tempted to just pick up the un-dinged copies to ensure a "clean" copy for my collection. As usual, I'm sitting on the fence.

In other Sub Press news, it looks like there's some sort of controversy around the third printing of Gardens of the Moon? I got the email stating that the order date has been pushed back due to customer feedback and also included some verbiage about sending further feedback to Bill to review. Anybody have any idea what this is about? Is it just due to an additional printing? If that's the case, I can understand because I'm not a big fan of these second and third printings of supposedly limited edition books. And I use the word "supposedly" because how limited is it if the publisher is just gonna crank out another 1000 or so copies? I'm a little more lenient if the publisher does another edition that is at least different aesthetically or adds some significant new material, for example Centipede's new edition of The Search of Joseph Tully has a different version of the previous edition's cloth binding and a dustjacket and the new edition of Falling Angel was only sold as part of the two-volume slipcase set that includes its sequel, Angel's Inferno. Anybody have any thoughts?

This is giving me flashbacks to the old Shocklines message board, where I last weighed in on a publisher doing second printings...I ended up getting banned from buying that publisher's books, and Joe Hill told me to "drink a nice tall glass of shut the fuck up!".....Good times!

I'm not 100% sure what the Gardens of the Moon issue is, but Bill is a good guy, and seems to be, as always, taking his customer's wishes into consideration.

[Sock Monkey]

I'm tempted with these dinged books and the prices are great for reader copies, but, on the other hand, I'm tempted to just pick up the un-dinged copies to ensure a "clean" copy for my collection. As usual, I'm sitting on the fence.

In other Sub Press news, it looks like there's some sort of controversy around the third printing of Gardens of the Moon? I got the email stating that the order date has been pushed back due to customer feedback and also included some verbiage about sending further feedback to Bill to review. Anybody have any idea what this is about? Is it just due to an additional printing? If that's the case, I can understand because I'm not a big fan of these second and third printings of supposedly limited edition books. And I use the word "supposedly" because how limited is it if the publisher is just gonna crank out another 1000 or so copies? I'm a little more lenient if the publisher does another edition that is at least different aesthetically or adds some significant new material, for example Centipede's new edition of The Search of Joseph Tully has a different version of the previous edition's cloth binding and a dustjacket and the new edition of Falling Angel was only sold as part of the two-volume slipcase set that includes its sequel, Angel's Inferno. Anybody have any thoughts?

[sholloman81]

Odd, I didn't see any mention of dinged books in today's email, just 20% off a half-dozen overstock titles. A shame, I would've loved to pick up a $15 EVENTS CONCERNING... title, as I skipped that one upon release since I already had one of the two novellas.

Hi Ron, They were actually a little further down in the email. Just checked and it's still available. Below are the links for the email for the dinged section...

• [*=1]The Carnival and Other Stories (Charles Beaumont);[*=1]Collectibles (edited by Lawrence Block);[*=1]Bradbury Weather (Caitlin R. Kiernan);[*=1]The Secret of Insects (Richard Kadrey);[*=1]The Events Concerning (Joe R. Lansdale);[*=1]Under the Hollywood Sign (Tom Reamy);

Belladonna Nights (Alastair Reynolds);

[RonClinton]

Just noticed as a part of the latest SubPress email newsletter, that their latest "dinged books" offering included "The Events Concerning" by Joe Lansdale. Pretty much an impulse buy, but I decided to grab a copy. I'm a huge Landale fan but had to pass on this when it was first announced, and also the dinged price of $15 works much better for me for this book than the full-price. One of the few times that waiting actually seems to have paid-off!

Odd, I didn't see any mention of dinged books in today's email, just 20% off a half-dozen overstock titles. A shame, I would've loved to pick up a $15 EVENTS CONCERNING... title, as I skipped that one upon release since I already had one of the two novellas.

[sholloman81]

Just noticed as a part of the latest SubPress email newsletter, that their latest "dinged books" offering included "The Events Concerning" by Joe Lansdale. Pretty much an impulse buy, but I decided to grab a copy. I'm a huge Landale fan but had to pass on this when it was first announced, and also the dinged price of $15 works much better for me for this book than the full-price. One of the few times that waiting actually seems to have paid-off!

[Scoogs]

I know printing costs have increased a lot, but I also wonder how much of the cost increase is driven by the licensing costs.
Andy Weir is a bigger name now. Did the contract for the rights to publish the third book cost significantly more than they did for the first book?
Obviously that would not justify a general price increase to all books, but there's more to it than just material and printing costs.

[Sock Monkey]

I also wonder how having rights to future books plays into any potential price-increases. For example, because I purchased Hill's Full Throttle from SubPress, I was offered Late Returns early. I ended up passing on that book and am now assuming that I may not have rights to the next Hill title from SubPress. Taking that into consideration, I wonder how often a publisher considers that when deciding on price, especially if the book is a part of a series. Did SubPress price Late Returns so high under the assumption that all the Full Throttle purchasers would automatically buy it regardless of price to keep their rights to the next one? Probably never know, but I do wonder...Â

That's interesting to consider. I'd like to think that a publisher wouldn't jack up the price due to something like that, but it could be one of many factors that could be taken into consideration. Or similarly, the publisher might take the chance on publishing something that requires a higher price point due to materials, etc., because some of the risk might be reduced knowing that some of the buyers will bite the bullet on the price to keep those rights. Interesting to ponder.

[sholloman81]

My general sense about pricing is shown in your detailed example, which I never had comparable purchases to use to actually substantiate my assumptions. This discussion brings to mind the blowback around the announcement of, I believe it was Summer of Night where Sub Press announced it at $500 and subsequently reduced the price to $250 after, from what I understand, some very vocal complaining. Obviously, I have no insight as to Sub Press's margins, including various factors like material costs and overhead that feed into that, along with how it affects their pricing strategy, but your example does make it at least feel from the customer's perspective that the comparative value of what they receive versus what they pay from one title to next is much less.

I also wonder how having rights to future books plays into any potential price-increases. For example, because I purchased Hill's Full Throttle from SubPress, I was offered Late Returns early. I ended up passing on that book and am now assuming that I may not have rights to the next Hill title from SubPress. Taking that into consideration, I wonder how often a publisher considers that when deciding on price, especially if the book is a part of a series. Did SubPress price Late Returns so high under the assumption that all the Full Throttle purchasers would automatically buy it regardless of price to keep their rights to the next one? Probably never know, but I do wonder... 

[Sock Monkey]

Project Hail Mary was such an extreme case.
Here are the Andy Weir book specifics:
The Martian - 2015 - 320 Pages - $75
Artemis - 2018 - 265 Pages - $95
Project Hail Mary - 2022 - 427 Pages - $185

The books all have the same production values. Expecting inflation adjustments, material adjustments (page count) I expect and accept price increases. I can even accept general price adjustment as previous books may have come in with a less than expected margin. Having the third book be more than the first 2 combined, 4 years later, is a bit extreme and has me looking closer at my Sub Press purchases.

Â

My general sense about pricing is shown in your detailed example, which I never had comparable purchases to use to actually substantiate my assumptions. This discussion brings to mind the blowback around the announcement of, I believe it was Summer of Night where Sub Press announced it at $500 and subsequently reduced the price to $250 after, from what I understand, some very vocal complaining. Obviously, I have no insight as to Sub Press's margins, including various factors like material costs and overhead that feed into that, along with how it affects their pricing strategy, but your example does make it at least feel from the customer's perspective that the comparative value of what they receive versus what they pay from one title to next is much less.

[Martin]

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

Project Hail Mary was such an extreme case.
Here are the Andy Weir book specifics:
The Martian - 2015 - 320 Pages - $75
Artemis - 2018 - 265 Pages - $95
Project Hail Mary - 2022 - 427 Pages - $185

The books all have the same production values. Expecting inflation adjustments, material adjustments (page count) I expect and accept price increases. I can even accept general price adjustment as previous books may have come in with a less than expected margin. Having the third book be more than the first 2 combined, 4 years later, is a bit extreme and has me looking closer at my Sub Press purchases.

 

[Sock Monkey]

You're not wrong about SubPress prices. They seem to have really skyrocketed over the last few years, especially considering the vast majority of their books don't even include slipcases. I now expect most of their books to be in the 125-175 range when it feels like only a few years ago that they were in the 65-85 range.Â

I'm glad it's not only me that's noticed that!

[sholloman81]

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

You're not wrong about SubPress prices.  They seem to have really skyrocketed over the last few years, especially considering the vast majority of their books don't even include slipcases.  I now expect most of their books to be in the 125-175 range when it feels like only a few years ago that they were in the 65-85 range. 

[Sock Monkey]

Within a few days of learning about this books existence on this forum I received an email that I was eligible to pre-order this based on getting Full Throttle directly from Sub Press. I decided to order it as I like the original story and it intrigued me. I will admit to having reservations regarding the price point, primarily based on my disappointment with 'Project Hail Mary' which felt like a $75 book with a $185 sticker price. Happy to report that this book did not disappoint me. The slipcase and overall design pairs well with Full Throttle and they matched my number which I did not expect but am happy with.Â

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

[brlesh]

Well, Sub Press has now made Late Returns available to the public, which, in my opinion, means that demand did not meet expectations. I'm wondering if a lot of Joe Hill collectors don't see this as "essential" due to it's inclusion in Full Throttle. I'm sure that the high price point of $175 didn't help. Does anybody remember when that was price point would have been for the lettered edition?! I'm a lukewarm Hill fan--I loved Heart Shaped Box, almost but not quite hated Horns and found 20th Century Ghosts to be a mixed bag; I have NOS4A2 in the queue somewhere so that might be the tie-breaker--so I'm not in the running for this even if it had been at a cheaper price point.

Yeah, I don’t think the demand for this was as high as Sub Press thought it would be.

Camelot put their copies up for order last week and still have copies available.

That being said, I’m a big fan of Hill’s work, so I ordered a copy.

B

[Martin]

Within a few days of learning about this books existence on this forum I received an email that I was eligible to pre-order this based on getting Full Throttle directly from Sub Press. I decided to order it as I like the original story and it intrigued me. I will admit to having reservations regarding the price point, primarily based on my disappointment with 'Project Hail Mary' which felt like a $75 book with a $185 sticker price. Happy to report that this book did not disappoint me. The slipcase and overall design pairs well with Full Throttle and they matched my number which I did not expect but am happy with.