Subterranean Press

[sholloman81]

My general sense about pricing is shown in your detailed example, which I never had comparable purchases to use to actually substantiate my assumptions. This discussion brings to mind the blowback around the announcement of, I believe it was Summer of Night where Sub Press announced it at $500 and subsequently reduced the price to $250 after, from what I understand, some very vocal complaining. Obviously, I have no insight as to Sub Press's margins, including various factors like material costs and overhead that feed into that, along with how it affects their pricing strategy, but your example does make it at least feel from the customer's perspective that the comparative value of what they receive versus what they pay from one title to next is much less.

I also wonder how having rights to future books plays into any potential price-increases. For example, because I purchased Hill's Full Throttle from SubPress, I was offered Late Returns early. I ended up passing on that book and am now assuming that I may not have rights to the next Hill title from SubPress. Taking that into consideration, I wonder how often a publisher considers that when deciding on price, especially if the book is a part of a series. Did SubPress price Late Returns so high under the assumption that all the Full Throttle purchasers would automatically buy it regardless of price to keep their rights to the next one? Probably never know, but I do wonder... 

[Sock Monkey]

Project Hail Mary was such an extreme case.
Here are the Andy Weir book specifics:
The Martian - 2015 - 320 Pages - $75
Artemis - 2018 - 265 Pages - $95
Project Hail Mary - 2022 - 427 Pages - $185

The books all have the same production values. Expecting inflation adjustments, material adjustments (page count) I expect and accept price increases. I can even accept general price adjustment as previous books may have come in with a less than expected margin. Having the third book be more than the first 2 combined, 4 years later, is a bit extreme and has me looking closer at my Sub Press purchases.

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My general sense about pricing is shown in your detailed example, which I never had comparable purchases to use to actually substantiate my assumptions. This discussion brings to mind the blowback around the announcement of, I believe it was Summer of Night where Sub Press announced it at $500 and subsequently reduced the price to $250 after, from what I understand, some very vocal complaining. Obviously, I have no insight as to Sub Press's margins, including various factors like material costs and overhead that feed into that, along with how it affects their pricing strategy, but your example does make it at least feel from the customer's perspective that the comparative value of what they receive versus what they pay from one title to next is much less.

[Martin]

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

Project Hail Mary was such an extreme case.
Here are the Andy Weir book specifics:
The Martian - 2015 - 320 Pages - $75
Artemis - 2018 - 265 Pages - $95
Project Hail Mary - 2022 - 427 Pages - $185

The books all have the same production values. Expecting inflation adjustments, material adjustments (page count) I expect and accept price increases. I can even accept general price adjustment as previous books may have come in with a less than expected margin. Having the third book be more than the first 2 combined, 4 years later, is a bit extreme and has me looking closer at my Sub Press purchases.

 

[Sock Monkey]

You're not wrong about SubPress prices. They seem to have really skyrocketed over the last few years, especially considering the vast majority of their books don't even include slipcases. I now expect most of their books to be in the 125-175 range when it feels like only a few years ago that they were in the 65-85 range.Â

I'm glad it's not only me that's noticed that!

[sholloman81]

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

You're not wrong about SubPress prices.  They seem to have really skyrocketed over the last few years, especially considering the vast majority of their books don't even include slipcases.  I now expect most of their books to be in the 125-175 range when it feels like only a few years ago that they were in the 65-85 range. 

[Sock Monkey]

Within a few days of learning about this books existence on this forum I received an email that I was eligible to pre-order this based on getting Full Throttle directly from Sub Press. I decided to order it as I like the original story and it intrigued me. I will admit to having reservations regarding the price point, primarily based on my disappointment with 'Project Hail Mary' which felt like a $75 book with a $185 sticker price. Happy to report that this book did not disappoint me. The slipcase and overall design pairs well with Full Throttle and they matched my number which I did not expect but am happy with.Â

Thanks for the review, Martin! I'm glad that it seems the quality of the production justifies the price tag. For some reason, your comment about the "$75 book with a $185 price tag" seems to resonate with me when evaluating purchase decisions from Sub Press. While I have bought a decent amount of titles from them over the years, I still don't feel that I can gauge quality of the books by their price points in the same way that I can, say like, Centipede Press. It may also be the fact that over the last few years, the price of their books have seemingly skyrocketed and my lack of experience makes me doubt the price-to-quality ratio substantiates the purchase.

[brlesh]

Well, Sub Press has now made Late Returns available to the public, which, in my opinion, means that demand did not meet expectations. I'm wondering if a lot of Joe Hill collectors don't see this as "essential" due to it's inclusion in Full Throttle. I'm sure that the high price point of $175 didn't help. Does anybody remember when that was price point would have been for the lettered edition?! I'm a lukewarm Hill fan--I loved Heart Shaped Box, almost but not quite hated Horns and found 20th Century Ghosts to be a mixed bag; I have NOS4A2 in the queue somewhere so that might be the tie-breaker--so I'm not in the running for this even if it had been at a cheaper price point.

Yeah, I don’t think the demand for this was as high as Sub Press thought it would be.

Camelot put their copies up for order last week and still have copies available.

That being said, I’m a big fan of Hill’s work, so I ordered a copy.

B

[Martin]

Within a few days of learning about this books existence on this forum I received an email that I was eligible to pre-order this based on getting Full Throttle directly from Sub Press. I decided to order it as I like the original story and it intrigued me. I will admit to having reservations regarding the price point, primarily based on my disappointment with 'Project Hail Mary' which felt like a $75 book with a $185 sticker price. Happy to report that this book did not disappoint me. The slipcase and overall design pairs well with Full Throttle and they matched my number which I did not expect but am happy with. 

[sholloman81]

Well, Sub Press has now made Late Returns available to the public, which, in my opinion, means that demand did not meet expectations. I'm wondering if a lot of Joe Hill collectors don't see this as "essential" due to it's inclusion in Full Throttle. I'm sure that the high price point of $175 didn't help. Does anybody remember when that was price point would have been for the lettered edition?! I'm a lukewarm Hill fan--I loved Heart Shaped Box, almost but not quite hated Horns and found 20th Century Ghosts to be a mixed bag; I have NOS4A2 in the queue somewhere so that might be the tie-breaker--so I'm not in the running for this even if it had been at a cheaper price point.

I pretty much passed for the exact reasons you state. I already have the SubPress limited edition of Full Throttle, which includes that story and was illustrated as well. I also feel that the $175 price tag is outrageous for a novella, especially such a recent and collected one, and I'm a huge Joe Hill fan. It works out to almost 2 bucks a page! For the same amount or close to it, I could grab a couple Thunderstorm LEs or a Suntup AGE which would be of way more bang for my buck IMO. Unless I find a copy at a steep discount on the aftermarket, no Late Returns for me!

[Sock Monkey]

Well, Sub Press has now made Late Returns available to the public, which, in my opinion, means that demand did not meet expectations. I'm wondering if a lot of Joe Hill collectors don't see this as "essential" due to it's inclusion in Full Throttle. I'm sure that the high price point of $175 didn't help. Does anybody remember when that was price point would have been for the lettered edition?! I'm a lukewarm Hill fan--I loved Heart Shaped Box, almost but not quite hated Horns and found 20th Century Ghosts to be a mixed bag; I have NOS4A2 in the queue somewhere so that might be the tie-breaker--so I'm not in the running for this even if it had been at a cheaper price point.

[RonClinton]

Anyone planning to pick-up the version of Joe Hill's "Late Returns" that SubPress will be releasing soon? It's very nice looking but will probably be a pass for me. I have the SubPress LE of Full Throttle which already contains that story and is good enough for me.

Not me. These days I'm all about avoiding variant editions of the same book, and I have the HC of FULL THROTTLE as well (though mine is the signed and numbered Goldsboro / Gollancz UK HC...wish I had the Sub Press HC, though), so have no need for this one, as enticing as the FV art is. Same for the standalone limited of FAWN. 

[sholloman81]

Anyone planning to pick-up the version of Joe Hill's "Late Returns" that SubPress will be releasing soon? It's very nice looking but will probably be a pass for me. I have the SubPress LE of Full Throttle which already contains that story and is good enough for me.

[sholloman81]

Two interesting announcements today: A new "God of the Razor" novella by Lansdale, entitled The Unlikely Affair of the Crawling Razor and then also Time Out by Michael Marshall Smith. Both of these are calling my name, but I'm trying to be better in 2024 with my purchases. Anyone else pull the trigger on either one or both?

You took the words out of my mouth! Would love to have both, especially the Lansdale, but am also trying to be choosier with my purchases in 2024, if I can stay disciplined. Assuming that it doesn't sell out, perhaps I can grab a copy at a later date.

[RonClinton]

Two interesting announcements today: A new "God of the Razor" novella by Lansdale, entitled The Unlikely Affair of the Crawling Razor and then also Time Out by Michael Marshall Smith. Both of these are calling my name, but I'm trying to be better in 2024 with my purchases. Anyone else pull the trigger on either one or both?

I'm going to; the only question is whether I do it now and wait until publication (or use Camelot). I suspect they'll both linger, so will probably wait for publication. I'm also trying to be much more discerning with my purchases, but I'm a big fan of both authors and both works sound absolutely fantastic.

[Sock Monkey]

Two interesting announcements today: A new "God of the Razor" novella by Lansdale, entitled The Unlikely Affair of the Crawling Razor and then also Time Out by Michael Marshall Smith. Both of these are calling my name, but I'm trying to be better in 2024 with my purchases. Anyone else pull the trigger on either one or both?