O T: I guess copyrights and trademarks are just no longer respected?

[c marvel]

A few months ago, just before this pandemic began, I decided I really needed to replace a favorite Bettie Page t-shirt. Mine was just very worn. So after looking I ordered from Teepublic. While the shirt looked great online, holding it in my hands I could see a flaw not noticeable online. I returned that shirt for an exchange and I found a great shirt (Or so I thought). The design on the second shirt was perfect except the artist? got one color wrong. I got to keep the second t-shirt and got a full refund. What I've noticed at Teepublic, Red Bubble, Teespring and others is there are designs available for well known copyrighted properties like Shazam!, Bettie Page, The Lone Ranger, etc... I don't know how this works. It seems to me the owners of the copyrights are not enforcing them. A lot of these designs seem clearly amateur and not officially licensed.


Cap

[goathunter]

I would venture that almost none of the shirts on any of those sites are licensed. Those are the sites that advertise their "limited edition" T-shirts on Facebook. They're "limited" because they know they'll be "sold out" and taken down before anyone can file copyright violation paperwork (assuming those sites would bother to abide by such requests).

It's pretty pathetic. Actually fighting copyright infringement can be quite expensive, and I think these people count on companies not wanting to spend the money enforcing their copyrights (assuming they find out about them).

[Martin]

A few months ago, just before this pandemic began, I decided I really needed to replace a favorite Bettie Page t-shirt. Mine was just very worn. So after looking I ordered from Teepublic. While the shirt looked great online, holding it in my hands I could see a flaw not noticeable online. I returned that shirt for an exchange and I found a great shirt (Or so I thought). The design on the second shirt was perfect except the artist? got one color wrong. I got to keep the second t-shirt and got a full refund. What I've noticed at Teepublic, Red Bubble, Teespring and others is there are designs available for well known copyrighted properties like Shazam!, Bettie Page, The Lone Ranger, etc... I don't know how this works. It seems to me the owners of the copyrights are not enforcing them. A lot of these designs seem clearly amateur and not officially licensed.


Cap

Sites like those you mentioned are protected under under by the 'Safe Harbour' principle of The Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It basically states that they are not responsible for third party sellers violating copyright laws on their sites. The copyright owner would need to go after each individual seller which would basically be like playing wack-a-mole. In my view this is a major issue and the law should be corrected but a lot of money has gone into lobbying efforts.

[Brian James Freeman]

Teespring takes these things a little more seriously than some of the other sites, for what it's worth.

We sometimes post t-shirts featuring our Stephen King related artwork -- after we have secured the proper rights to use the art on apparel and paid the artist for those rights -- and Teespring used to take them down and give us a warning because we mentioned Stephen King and/or the book title in the name of the product.

So, if you ever wonder why we post a shirt with Glenn Chadbourne's take on what is obviously Cujo but we call it "Generic Angry Dog Attacks Car Shirt" -- now you know why... We could actually lose the account if they flag us too many times!

Edited to add: But we really like the quality of the printing and the service from Teespring, which is why we haven't switched to one of those other sites that don't care. Plus, on general principal, we think the other sites should care!

Brian

[Dan Hocker]

Teespring takes these things a little more seriously than some of the other sites, for what it's worth.

We sometimes post t-shirts featuring our Stephen King related artwork -- after we have secured the proper rights to use the art on apparel and paid the artist for those rights -- and Teespring used to take them down and give us a warning because we mentioned Stephen King and/or the book title in the name of the product.

So, if you ever wonder why we post a shirt with Glenn Chadbourne's take on what is obviously Cujo but we call it "Generic Angry Dog Attacks Car Shirt" -- now you know why... We could actually lose the account if they flag us too many times!

Edited to add: But we really like the quality of the printing and the service from Teespring, which is why we haven't switched to one of those other sites that don't care. Plus, on general principal, we think the other sites should care!

Brian

Yep. It's kinda a pain in the ass. It's why we've moved to doing all of our products as "unlisted" and don't add them to our Teespring store front. That said as with all of these platforms there's a lot of stuff that just gets through. Largely because there's a fair amount of legal gray area when it comes to "artists interpretation" of things.

[c marvel]

Sites like those you mentioned are protected under under by the 'Safe Harbour' principle of The Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It basically states that they are not responsible for third party sellers violating copyright laws on their sites. The copyright owner would need to go after each individual seller which would basically be like playing wack-a-mole. In my view this is a major issue and the law should be corrected but a lot of money has gone into lobbying efforts.

I know that after Bettie Page reappeared after being missing from 1958-1992 she eventually hired an agent, James L Swanson after she learned about the amazing Bettie Page fans who still remembered her. James L Swanson was fired by Bettie Page. She was nearly penniless and hadn't received any royalties. It's my understanding the heirs were attempting to regain some measure of control over the use of Bettie Page's name and image.
Another interesting character - Dracula. Dacre Stoker, the great-grand nephew of Bram Stoker, was able to regain control of the Dracula copyright.


Cap

[Splync]

Did Dacre Stoker successfully regain control of the copyright? I honestly had figured that Dracula was public domain, given that everyone seems to have their own version of the novel these days.

[Martin]

Teespring takes these things a little more seriously than some of the other sites, for what it's worth.

We sometimes post t-shirts featuring our Stephen King related artwork -- after we have secured the proper rights to use the art on apparel and paid the artist for those rights -- and Teespring used to take them down and give us a warning because we mentioned Stephen King and/or the book title in the name of the product.

So, if you ever wonder why we post a shirt with Glenn Chadbourne's take on what is obviously Cujo but we call it "Generic Angry Dog Attacks Car Shirt" -- now you know why... We could actually lose the account if they flag us too many times!

Edited to add: But we really like the quality of the printing and the service from Teespring, which is why we haven't switched to one of those other sites that don't care. Plus, on general principal, we think the other sites should care!

Brian

That is good information to have. Thank You.

[Martin]

I know that after Bettie Page reappeared after being missing from 1958-1992 she eventually hired an agent, James L Swanson after she learned about the amazing Bettie Page fans who still remembered her. James L Swanson was fired by Bettie Page. She was nearly penniless and hadn't received any royalties. It's my understanding the heirs were attempting to regain some measure of control over the use of Bettie Page's name and image.
Another interesting character - Dracula. Dacre Stoker, the great-grand nephew of Bram Stoker, was able to regain control of the Dracula copyright.


Cap

There is a 2013 documentary on Amazon Prime (if it is still up) called Bettie Paige Reveals All. Not sure how accurate it is but it covers Hugh Hefner helping the family get representation and allowing her to live comfortably late in life. It is a pretty good documentary but I have never researched how accurate the information is.

[Martin]

Did Dacre Stoker successfully regain control of the copyright? I honestly had figured that Dracula was public domain, given that everyone seems to have their own version of the novel these days.

I believe Dracula remains in Public domain.

[c marvel]

There is a 2013 documentary on Amazon Prime (if it is still up) called Bettie Paige Reveals All. Not sure how accurate it is but it covers Hugh Hefner helping the family get representation and allowing her to live comfortably late in life. It is a pretty good documentary but I have never researched how accurate the information is.

It is accurate and based on coversations the director Mark Mori had w. Bettie Page. I have two copies of that DVD. I did notice a discrepancy in Bettie Page Reveals All as opposed to her autobiography book. I'd have to rewatch Reveals All, but I'm unsure it touches on some of the stuff that happened that got Bettie Page in some hot water.

Cap

[c marvel]

Did Dacre Stoker successfully regain control of the copyright? I honestly had figured that Dracula was public domain, given that everyone seems to have their own version of the novel these days.

I'm unsure, but I think he did. ~Cap

[Martin]

It is accurate and based on coversations the director Mark Mori had w. Bettie Page. I have two copies of that DVD. ~Cap

Good to hear, I really enjoyed the documentary.

[Dan Hocker]

I believe Dracula remains in Public domain.

Correct. Dracula is public domain. I don't think there was any way for Dacre to regain the copyright. Dracula wasn't even copywritten in the US (which mattered at the time). Per UK laws the copyright was secure for 50 years after Stoker's death before becoming public domain.

Those laws aren't the same anymore though. Thanks Disney...

[c marvel]

Correct. Dracula is public domain. I don't think there was any way for Dacre to regain the copyright. Dracula wasn't even copywritten in the US (which mattered at the time). Per UK laws the copyright was secure for 50 years after Stoker's death before becoming public domain.

Those laws aren't the same anymore though. Thanks Disney...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacre_Stoker