Ability to cancel pre-orders...

[bsaenz24]

I just learned that a newer, well respected small press doesn’t allow you to cancel preorders and instead tells you to find someone else to sell the book to. First time I’ve encountered this policy, and even though I rarely cancel an order, it makes me hesitant to order again. Anyone else feel the same way, or are you okay with a “we have your money and you’re stuck” policy from a small press?

[jeffingoff]

I just learned that a newer, well respected small press doesn’t allow you to cancel preorders and instead tells you to find someone else to sell the book to. First time I’ve encountered this policy, and even though I rarely cancel an order, it makes me hesitant to order again. Anyone else feel the same way, or are you okay with a “we have your money and you’re stuck” policy from a small press?

I almost always want the book I've ordered instead of the refund, so it takes a bit for me to cancel an order. The only reason I would cancel is if my money dried up (or started to) and the preorder is years old. With that much time passing, collecting habits can change and impulse buys can get reexamined. That's a lot of time to reflect. The publisher you're referring to has been getting the books out on time or ahead of schedule on almost every release. And reselling after securing a copy is not hard to do and could result in a. bit of a profit.

I do think that policy could be better communicated, however. I hadn't seen it posted anywhere during the ordering process, but I also have the worst eye for detail, a very impatient eye. I also haven't heard of anyone who felt stuck.

[Martin]

I just learned that a newer, well respected small press doesn’t allow you to cancel preorders and instead tells you to find someone else to sell the book to. First time I’ve encountered this policy, and even though I rarely cancel an order, it makes me hesitant to order again. Anyone else feel the same way, or are you okay with a “we have your money and you’re stuck” policy from a small press?

I can count the number of items I have cancelled on one hand with fingers to spare. With that said, If a company I had something on order with refused my request for a refund, on an undelivered item, it would probably be the last order I placed with them.

[Dan Hocker]

I'm like 90% positive it's illegal to not allow someone to cancel a preorder.

[Ben Staad]

If you don't have the product, and it is past due, you should be able to initiate a claim with your bank or lender.

I just learned that a newer, well respected small press doesn’t allow you to cancel preorders and instead tells you to find someone else to sell the book to. First time I’ve encountered this policy, and even though I rarely cancel an order, it makes me hesitant to order again. Anyone else feel the same way, or are you okay with a “we have your money and you’re stuck” policy from a small press?

[Martin]

I'm like 90% positive it's illegal to not allow someone to cancel a preorder.

That is an interesting thought. I would assume a paid preorder would be classified as a purchase agreement. I would also assume that if the retailer failed to deliver on the original delivery date that they have voided the purchase agreement. Laws of this nature are generally handled at a state level although some counties may have unique laws. Here is a list of the states laws.
https://consumer.findlaw.com/consume...-by-state.html
I am also assuming, without knowledge, that the law in the buyers state would take precedent.
A lot of assumptions here. So basically, I have no idea.

[Dan Hocker]

Generally speaking though it's really bad policy to not accept cancelations, and if not technically illegal (which I still think it is) it's definitely in a gray area, and the credit card companies will side with the purchaser not the seller if it comes to that. Pretty much all you would have to do is tell them the seller hasn't shipped the product yet and they refuse to cancel your order as you no longer want the product. For what it's worth the FTC has some pretty strict rules regarding preorders, it's why companies like Amazon won't actually charge you for a preorder until the product ships, because they just don't want to have to deal with the regulations. Not really sure who this is in reference to, but they should really reconsider that policy in my opinion.

[Brian861]

If you don't have the product, and it is past due, you should be able to initiate a claim with your bank or lender.

I'm not one to skirt around an issue so let's just call a spade a spade; it's Suntup that's being referred to here. Paul's books are never past due so that wouldn't be an issue. Paul's a pretty smart guy as well so I'll assume he did some research as far as not allowing cancellations. No dog in this particular fight but I have made some pretty good profits reselling the books I didn't want.

[Ben Staad]

Okay. Well if it isn't late, hasn't shipped, you still should be able to initiate a claim. People cannot just hold your money.

I'm not one to skirt around an issue so let's just call a spade a spade; it's Suntup that's being referred to here. Paul's books are never past due so that wouldn't be an issue. Paul's a pretty smart guy as well so I'll assume he did some research as far as not allowing cancellations. No dog in this particular fight but I have made some pretty good profits reselling the books I didn't want.

[Martin]

Generally speaking though it's really bad policy to not accept cancelations, and if not technically illegal (which I still think it is) it's definitely in a gray area, and the credit card companies will side with the purchaser not the seller if it comes to that. Pretty much all you would have to do is tell them the seller hasn't shipped the product yet and they refuse to cancel your order as you no longer want the product. For what it's worth the FTC has some pretty strict rules regarding preorders, it's why companies like Amazon won't actually charge you for a preorder until the product ships, because they just don't want to have to deal with the regulations. Not really sure who this is in reference to, but they should really reconsider that policy in my opinion.

I do know that there are federal tax regulations regarding holding funds for product or services not yet delivered. A retailer I once worked for dropped layaway as the regulatory requirements simply were not worth the volume they were doing.

[Martin]

I'm not one to skirt around an issue so let's just call a spade a spade; it's Suntup that's being referred to here. Paul's books are never past due so that wouldn't be an issue. Paul's a pretty smart guy as well so I'll assume he did some research as far as not allowing cancellations. No dog in this particular fight but I have made some pretty good profits reselling the books I didn't want.

The fact that you may be able to sell the item for more than you paid should have no bearing here. I have several pre-orders with Suntup. Were I to try to cancel one and was denied, I would request refunds on all orders and then I would file a claim with my bank. This is bad business and brings Nocturnal Reader's Box and Full Moon Press and that in not company any company should want to be in.

[RonClinton]

Huh. Had no idea Suntup had that policy...that's good to know. I can't foresee any scenario where I would order one of their books and then wish to cancel it, but if I were in that situation my expectation would be that they would offer the kind of exemplary customer service they've thus far demonstrated and, as well, follow traditional publisher courtesy and refund the money. That they apparently have a policy that refuses refunds is surprising and puzzling.

[Martin]

Here is the statement on the Suntup website:
Can I cancel my order?


Yes, but our Terms of Service state that requests to cancel a pre-ordered book must be received within 48 hours of ordering. We do not accept cancellation requests for pre-ordered books beyond that time. If you are within the 48 hour period, and you request to cancel a pre-order and you paid using the installment plan, the 5% fee charged on your first installment is non-refundable. You may cancel an order for an in-stock item provided it has not been shipped. To request a cancellation, please submit this form.

This appears to work within most state rules as they clearly state their policy. Some states do state that any rules against refunds must be 'displayed' or 'conspicuously disclosed' at time of sale. No idea if a statement in the website FAQ would suffice in those states.

The only FTC rules I can find allow for a 72 hour right to cancel. If Suntup held to the 48 hour limit but the request was within 72 hours it would be in violation. The other rules are related to the delivery being delayed.

Based on very little research it appears to me that they are within their legal rights. That does not make it good customer service but it appears to be legal. I am not sure how a banking institution would handle a dispute and I would guess it would vary by bank. I have filed disputes with US Bank and my Credit Union. I was successful both times but US Bank required me to prove to them I was correct. My Credit Union placed that burden on the seller.

[Ben Staad]

I would message or email Paul directly if this is the case. I would be surprised if they wouldn't work with you.

If he refused I would still contest charges and see what happens.

[Brian861]

I would message or email Paul directly if this is the case. I would be surprised if they wouldn't work with you.

If he refused I would still contest charges and see what happens.

You'd have to contest it. He'll merely point out the 48 hour policy to you. Maybe CA allows for the 48 hour window since that's the point of sale vs where the purchaser lives? Either way, the policy is in black and white and I personally don't have a problem with it. Otherwise purchase, if you can, from a retailer who doesn't charge you until the book is ready to ship.