Production Update Questions

[Martin]

I can't say I even noticed any of the issues Jeff mentions in the video...I opened up the box, looked at the cover, and put it in the pile, lol. This is a book that I am not interested in at all, so I was basically just happy that CD finally came through on one of their long overdue books. Looking at it now, I can see what Jeff is talking about, but it is basically what I would expect from a low-cost hardcover with interior art and a signature. I'd put this at about a $40.00 cover price if it was sold apart from the club. I'm sad that CD has, in essence, become a delivery system for the endless Chizmar spam and "freebies" for ordering his books, but all good things come to an end, and I feel like we're in the long last gasps of CD as a force in the Horror small press. Prove me wrong, CD...Please!

I really need to sit and get an e-mail off to Mindy asking what I'm owed and how to get a refund.

I accept your views but if you set these recent releases next to an older $40 book from CD, which was the standard retail for non-premium editions, you will find very different productions, I would accept a higher retail over lower quality anytime. It appears their current standard retail is $50 or $60 which would be very reasonable with the previous production quality. I would happily pay $75 now for the books with the quality they were producing before; I would not pay above trade retail prices for the recent releases and would only buy them if it was an author I was already collecting. I will bow out of this conversation at this time as I have no interest on bashing CD on their platform. I will end with the fact that I am clearly no longer in their target market, which is fine with me, I wish them well, but I am out.

[dannyboy121070]

I accept your views but if you set these recent releases next to an older $40 book from CD, which was the standard retail for non-premium editions, you will find very different productions, I would accept a higher retail over lower quality anytime. It appears their current standard retail is $50 or $60 which would be very reasonable with the previous production quality. I would happily pay $75 now for the books with the quality they were producing before; I would not pay above trade retail prices for the recent releases and would only buy them if it was an author I was already collecting. I will bow out of this conversation at this time as I have no interest on bashing CD on their platform. I will end with the fact that I am clearly no longer in their target market, which is fine with me, I wish them well, but I am out.

I totally see what you're saying, and I probably didn't make myself clear enough in what I meant. Considering that I started collecting CD books in, maybe...the late 90s?...I'm really not sure...and the price for a standard signed and limited was around $40, I'm saying that I can understand the downgrade in quality being traded for keeping the cost relatively low. CD is not known for producing books that increase in value, and I have zero interest in this book or author, so none of this is a big deal for me. Seeing as how most of the trade hardcovers that I was looking at in B&N last night retail for $30-$35, I guess the signature and interior art makes it a wash for me. I'll probably read this eventually, and I hope I enjoy it. But unless CD gets their act together (No more pre-orders, or at least no pre-orders with payment needed, and better communication with faster turnaround), I'm probably long done with their books. In fact, aside from their various clubs over the years, I can't remember the last book that I ordered from them. Which is sad, but...none of this is really new. I can name at least 5 CD books that I pre-ordered from SHOCKLINES, which closed up shop TWO, DECADES. AGO. that STILL haven't seen the light of day, and probably another 10-20 that I proofread over 10 or 15 years ago that are M.I.A as well. This is, not to be a jerk, absolutely shameful, and the laissez-faire attitude that Mr. Chizmar has about holding people's money for years/decades would not be tolerated in any other type of business. I placed a pre-order for a product about six months ago that is technically still not overdue yet (First quarter 2025), and I get updates and apologies from the manufacturer every few days. CD just seems to either not care, or assume their customers don't care. The wheels here, meaning the buyers and collectors, just do not squeak enough, IMO.

[DanFranklin]

Hey y'all! So I was flagged to swing by here and chime in!


Regarding why updates get posted on Facebook and not here: it takes a ton of time to produce updates. The big ones get added to the PU page on the site. My personal informal ones go on FB where they reach are an audience between twenty to fifty times larger than these forums. I make them on my own time, not company time and I'm having some personal/professional stuff that is making time spread extremely thin. I will try to swing by a little more often as it has been months... and months... and months, and for that I apologize. You can certainly always email me to hear my best approximation at answers!


As for the more varied manufacturing styles in the last couple years:

We have a lot of overdue books. Some are announced and some are not. A ton were giveaways from years gone by. We need to get them done. Not tomorrow, today. To do that we need to use multiple printers, simultaneously. Printers all have their own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. Learning those and playing into their abilities is going to be necessary, as is being very aware of their weaknesses.

One of the printers actively lobbying for our books to accelerate the old projects is very new. We’ve been working with them to produce some of the old giveaways in particular. Each book they've produced has been steadily better but there is still an issue of the way they handle their spines—they make them thicker and more ornamental than they are reader-friendly. Originally they used cardstock paper for the same reason which sounds cool (fancy! higher quality!) but is problematic in larger books because you can't flip through them easily. That was easy to fix. The new samples for their current project are vastly improved (in how they seal in the binding to promote durability, thinning the spine and allowing a far smoother flexion), but it’s taken time to get them to develop their process to meet our goals as a hybrid of both pretty and user-friendly. All of their books have still been good quality and way above their price tag value (and also miles above the generic hardcovers you reference—I know this because I got samples from them for our trade hardcovers and they were not viable for use anywhere, not even in our trade line.)

And theyre here.

The printer who normally does GYEs hasnt responded to my emails for 2 months after they provided a quote for a different publisher’s book by mistake. All GYEs HAVE to go through them to match, so I’ll keep emailing but not super keen on feeding them other things. Another printer damaged a third of our copies for GMF limited a few years back. Destroyed books is scary. Another printer spiked its price up halfway through production. Dangerous. Another printer requires large printings (like The Stand) and does extraordinary work, but will not handle a <500 run. Awesome, but for big stuff (and not lettered edition capable). Another is great but high priced and refuses to print certain projects, so things like lettereds must be rebound at a secondary printer who are incredible but astronomically priced and so… so… slow. New printer needs a ton of handholding, but can get them completed, start to finish, quickly. Etc. Lots of options.

To reiterate: all products are higher value than the generic hardcover bulk printers, and higher than their price value. The printers that aren't fully and repeatedly proven as capable of 150 dollar limiteds aren't going to get 150 dollar limiteds projects offered to them, but we have almost two decades of projects that need to be caught up and some can fit in each of those printers mentioned above’s skillsets.

We cannot wait and wait and wait for it to rain. Our limited line has been frozen for half a decade. Frozen. No new projects aside from juggernauts. The gravity of that cannot be understated. We need to go out and get things printing so we can clear the board and move forward. I want the old CDCC giveaways 100% caught up in the next 4-5 years. Expect to get more freebies you've forgotten that you are owed.

While I have no real control over big ticket item schedules, the smaller ones I try to only offer when they're fully paid/within 2 months of shipping out from our warehouse. CD must get caught up. Our tools are in a constant state of change (if you know the details of the recent slipcase manufacturer disaster, you have a fun example), but we *must* clear these ancient projects. For ethical reasons, for legal reasons, for artistic reasons, and so we have the freedom to choose projects that we can effectively pursue. And really? Because youre owed your damn books. I don't imagine that all will satisfy, but can hopefully give a little bit of a peek behind the curtain at my mindset at least! I don't have final say choices, but I do want to get you your books with more shipping out each year than shipped out the previous year

[dannyboy121070]

Hey y'all! So I was flagged to swing by here and chime in!


Regarding why updates get posted on Facebook and not here: it takes a ton of time to produce updates. The big ones get added to the PU page on the site. My personal informal ones go on FB where they reach are an audience between twenty to fifty times larger than these forums. I make them on my own time, not company time and I'm having some personal/professional stuff that is making time spread extremely thin. I will try to swing by a little more often as it has been months... and months... and months, and for that I apologize. You can certainly always email me to hear my best approximation at answers!


As for the more varied manufacturing styles in the last couple years:

We have a lot of overdue books. Some are announced and some are not. A ton were giveaways from years gone by. We need to get them done. Not tomorrow, today. To do that we need to use multiple printers, simultaneously. Printers all have their own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. Learning those and playing into their abilities is going to be necessary, as is being very aware of their weaknesses.

One of the printers actively lobbying for our books to accelerate the old projects is very new. We’ve been working with them to produce some of the old giveaways in particular. Each book they've produced has been steadily better but there is still an issue of the way they handle their spines—they make them thicker and more ornamental than they are reader-friendly. Originally they used cardstock paper for the same reason which sounds cool (fancy! higher quality!) but is problematic in larger books because you can't flip through them easily. That was easy to fix. The new samples for their current project are vastly improved (in how they seal in the binding to promote durability, thinning the spine and allowing a far smoother flexion), but it’s taken time to get them to develop their process to meet our goals as a hybrid of both pretty and user-friendly. All of their books have still been good quality and way above their price tag value (and also miles above the generic hardcovers you reference—I know this because I got samples from them for our trade hardcovers and they were not viable for use anywhere, not even in our trade line.)

And theyre here.

The printer who normally does GYEs hasnt responded to my emails for 2 months after they provided a quote for a different publisher’s book by mistake. All GYEs HAVE to go through them to match, so I’ll keep emailing but not super keen on feeding them other things. Another printer damaged a third of our copies for GMF limited a few years back. Destroyed books is scary. Another printer spiked its price up halfway through production. Dangerous. Another printer requires large printings (like The Stand) and does extraordinary work, but will not handle a <500 run. Awesome, but for big stuff (and not lettered edition capable). Another is great but high priced and refuses to print certain projects, so things like lettereds must be rebound at a secondary printer who are incredible but astronomically priced and so… so… slow. New printer needs a ton of handholding, but can get them completed, start to finish, quickly. Etc. Lots of options.

To reiterate: all products are higher value than the generic hardcover bulk printers, and higher than their price value. The printers that aren't fully and repeatedly proven as capable of 150 dollar limiteds aren't going to get 150 dollar limiteds projects offered to them, but we have almost two decades of projects that need to be caught up and some can fit in each of those printers mentioned above’s skillsets.

We cannot wait and wait and wait for it to rain. Our limited line has been frozen for half a decade. Frozen. No new projects aside from juggernauts. The gravity of that cannot be understated. We need to go out and get things printing so we can clear the board and move forward. I want the old CDCC giveaways 100% caught up in the next 4-5 years. Expect to get more freebies you've forgotten that you are owed.

While I have no real control over big ticket item schedules, the smaller ones I try to only offer when they're fully paid/within 2 months of shipping out from our warehouse. CD must get caught up. Our tools are in a constant state of change (if you know the details of the recent slipcase manufacturer disaster, you have a fun example), but we *must* clear these ancient projects. For ethical reasons, for legal reasons, for artistic reasons, and so we have the freedom to choose projects that we can effectively pursue. And really? Because youre owed your damn books. I don't imagine that all will satisfy, but can hopefully give a little bit of a peek behind the curtain at my mindset at least! I don't have final say choices, but I do want to get you your books with more shipping out each year than shipped out the previous year

Dan, thank you for your reply, insight into the process, and candor. I appreciate hearing that things are moving behind the scenes to make things right and get current, and I truly do hope that CD can get back on track. Your honesty and efforts are appreciated.

[sholloman81]

Hey y'all! So I was flagged to swing by here and chime in

Hi Dan, thanks for the updates. Do you have any better info on the slipcases for both Holly & You Like It Darker?

[DanFranklin]

Not on YLID yet, but Holly is up next and walking the slipcase maker through what we have in mind is part of my goal for this week! We have it designed and it looks really cool and I have (maybe ambitious) hopes for getting the aftermarket slipcases rolling along again. The one slipcase manufacturer may have gone haywire, but I was very happy with how the Interview with the Vampire cases turned out and they claim they can be a match for the King ones!

[Martin]

Hey y'all! So I was flagged to swing by here and chime in!


Regarding why updates get posted on Facebook and not here: it takes a ton of time to produce updates. The big ones get added to the PU page on the site. My personal informal ones go on FB where they reach are an audience between twenty to fifty times larger than these forums. I make them on my own time, not company time and I'm having some personal/professional stuff that is making time spread extremely thin. I will try to swing by a little more often as it has been months... and months... and months, and for that I apologize. You can certainly always email me to hear my best approximation at answers!


As for the more varied manufacturing styles in the last couple years:

We have a lot of overdue books. Some are announced and some are not. A ton were giveaways from years gone by. We need to get them done. Not tomorrow, today. To do that we need to use multiple printers, simultaneously. Printers all have their own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. Learning those and playing into their abilities is going to be necessary, as is being very aware of their weaknesses.

One of the printers actively lobbying for our books to accelerate the old projects is very new. We’ve been working with them to produce some of the old giveaways in particular. Each book they've produced has been steadily better but there is still an issue of the way they handle their spines—they make them thicker and more ornamental than they are reader-friendly. Originally they used cardstock paper for the same reason which sounds cool (fancy! higher quality!) but is problematic in larger books because you can't flip through them easily. That was easy to fix. The new samples for their current project are vastly improved (in how they seal in the binding to promote durability, thinning the spine and allowing a far smoother flexion), but it’s taken time to get them to develop their process to meet our goals as a hybrid of both pretty and user-friendly. All of their books have still been good quality and way above their price tag value (and also miles above the generic hardcovers you reference—I know this because I got samples from them for our trade hardcovers and they were not viable for use anywhere, not even in our trade line.)

And theyre here.

The printer who normally does GYEs hasnt responded to my emails for 2 months after they provided a quote for a different publisher’s book by mistake. All GYEs HAVE to go through them to match, so I’ll keep emailing but not super keen on feeding them other things. Another printer damaged a third of our copies for GMF limited a few years back. Destroyed books is scary. Another printer spiked its price up halfway through production. Dangerous. Another printer requires large printings (like The Stand) and does extraordinary work, but will not handle a &lt;500 run. Awesome, but for big stuff (and not lettered edition capable). Another is great but high priced and refuses to print certain projects, so things like lettereds must be rebound at a secondary printer who are incredible but astronomically priced and so… so… slow. New printer needs a ton of handholding, but can get them completed, start to finish, quickly. Etc. Lots of options.

To reiterate: all products are higher value than the generic hardcover bulk printers, and higher than their price value. The printers that aren't fully and repeatedly proven as capable of 150 dollar limiteds aren't going to get 150 dollar limiteds projects offered to them, but we have almost two decades of projects that need to be caught up and some can fit in each of those printers mentioned above’s skillsets.

We cannot wait and wait and wait for it to rain. Our limited line has been frozen for half a decade. Frozen. No new projects aside from juggernauts. The gravity of that cannot be understated. We need to go out and get things printing so we can clear the board and move forward. I want the old CDCC giveaways 100% caught up in the next 4-5 years. Expect to get more freebies you've forgotten that you are owed.

While I have no real control over big ticket item schedules, the smaller ones I try to only offer when they're fully paid/within 2 months of shipping out from our warehouse. CD must get caught up. Our tools are in a constant state of change (if you know the details of the recent slipcase manufacturer disaster, you have a fun example), but we *must* clear these ancient projects. For ethical reasons, for legal reasons, for artistic reasons, and so we have the freedom to choose projects that we can effectively pursue. And really? Because youre owed your damn books. I don't imagine that all will satisfy, but can hopefully give a little bit of a peek behind the curtain at my mindset at least! I don't have final say choices, but I do want to get you your books with more shipping out each year than shipped out the previous year

Dan,
Thank you for engaging. I said I would bow out of this conversation as I have no interest in criticizing CD on their own platform. Your responses may not have been directed at my posts, but I feel I should respond to a few points you made.
1. Regarding your point about why posts are made to Facebook and not here. I have been, and will always be, critical of companies who I have made purchases from updating some of their customers on Facebook and not through direct contact or their website, I have not ever criticized CD for not posting updates here. I have, and will, criticize CD when someone else posts an update they saw on Facebook for a book I purchased years ago without sending an update to those who purchased the book or posting it to their website. I have seen updates to The Stand here that did not appear on the 'Production Update' page of the CD website until weeks later. That is literally where we have been told to look for updates! No matter how many people you reach via Facebook it will not equate to the same list who bought it from you.
2. Regarding your point about the quality of the recent releases. I appreciate the efforts to get caught up. My point was that the recent releases are not to the level of prior CD releases, and they are below a level I am comfortable buying. You had a release a while back titled 'Little Boy'. That interested me and I was thinking about ordering it. After receiving the recent releases, I have decided to pass. I certainly hope things improve but until I see that I will remain on the sideline.
3. Small point, you mention CDCC giveaways and 'expect to get freebies you've forgotten you are owed'. These are not giveaways or freebees; they were part of a paid purchase. I personally have been given nothing I did not pay for.
4. You mention that your limited line has been frozen for half a decade. That it greatly understating the issue. My oldest undelivered Preorder is 'Shocklines: Fresh Voices in Terror'. I ordered that book February 23rd, 2007. That pre-order would be a legal adult were it a person and has changed names for a very obvious reason. This issue is not new and existed long before that. My first order with CD was Legacies. I ordered that in 1998 and received it in 2010. This has always been an issue but back then Mr. Chizmar directly communicated updates once or twice a year to the people who had purchased them sometimes on the website and sometimes via mail.

I am not trying to bash you or CD. Communication is critical and at the moment non-existent. I and many others do not, and for, will never have a Facebook account, The CD website is more frustrating than informative. The Production update page makes no sense. Header says Updated 03/24/2025, then Update on Shipping 02/24/2025 with updates below that ranging from 11/18/2025 through 03/24/2025. All updates below that have dates from 04/30/2024 through 10/30/2024 and several of them had the date changed with no change to the text. This throws my very literal into a spin, and I have given up on that page. The main site has a coming soon page with nothing listed. A recent releases page with Bruises on a Butterfly, which released a year ago. This may be just me, but when I know more books have been released since last February the site is telling me that I do not need to check it as it will not be updated anyway. I am a very literal person, and I train easily. The current state of the CD website has trained me that it serves no purpose, so I no longer check it. A recent example, someone posted here that they really liked 'He Who Types Between the Rows 3'. I am not a paperback guy, but I do have the first two and enjoyed them. I went to the site, and it was still listed as a pre-order, so I checked Amazon and it showed I could have it in two days. That was enough for me to walk away. I still do not know and no longer care if the book is in stock. CD's communication currently is unacceptable and frustrating for those of us with years of backorders.

At this point I am not making new purchases from CD and my not return to making them. The backlog is an issue but for me, the complete breakdown of communication is a much greater issue. I hope CD pulls out of this and once again establishes themselves as a leader in the small press, but if the communication to your customers does not improve, I will not be part of that resurgence and suspect it will not happen

But I hope it does. Take care!

[DanFranklin]

My responses were directed at a lot of posts! But I fully understand and am not trying to back and forth or be snarky, just to clear up a couple things!

I have no ability to send out those sorts of contact emails, I just make unofficial CD updates there, and official ones on the CD website every couple months (and one in every April on every item in the public list--although the non public list is far bigger). The issue with things like Little Boy is it was made at one of the super high quality/high priced printers at a value easily twice what was being charged and it took 6 months and didn't sell. As for the term freebies, I apologize--I was using another customer's term and you are completely correct. They're not freebies. They were paid and are overdue. That is absolutely true.

When I say frozen, I mean no new projects! I've never signed a contract for a limited edition (I don't deal with the King products) in my 5 years here. When I got the job I was told that I would be taking no new ones until we are caught up. We owe from way before that!

As for Amazon vs the website... that is an ongoing issue in that, particularly on release, Amazon can deliver far faster than we can. That's why almost not small presses offer paperbacks directly, but instead reroute through Amazon. We can make up sales when discounts come through, and we can give signed copies of certain books, but there's definitely a reason that almost all pb sales go through KDP. The website itself is woefully outdated and bloated and needs to be cleaned up. There are only a few useful tabs on our website currently: the front page, product update, and in-stock. Most of the others are relics! Will make down a note to see about at the very least leaving the tabs fully empty (things like Bruises should not be there--and books like Sieber's newest aren't technically a preorder at all, but fully released and in need of updating!)

[Martin]

My responses were directed at a lot of posts! But I fully understand and am not trying to back and forth or be snarky, just to clear up a couple things!

I have no ability to send out those sorts of contact emails, I just make unofficial CD updates there, and official ones on the CD website every couple months (and one in every April on every item in the public list--although the non public list is far bigger). The issue with things like Little Boy is it was made at one of the super high quality/high priced printers at a value easily twice what was being charged and it took 6 months and didn't sell. As for the term freebies, I apologize--I was using another customer's term and you are completely correct. They're not freebies. They were paid and are overdue. That is absolutely true.

When I say frozen, I mean no new projects! I've never signed a contract for a limited edition (I don't deal with the King products) in my 5 years here. When I got the job I was told that I would be taking no new ones until we are caught up. We owe from way before that!

As for Amazon vs the website... that is an ongoing issue in that, particularly on release, Amazon can deliver far faster than we can. That's why almost not small presses offer paperbacks directly, but instead reroute through Amazon. We can make up sales when discounts come through, and we can give signed copies of certain books, but there's definitely a reason that almost all pb sales go through KDP. The website itself is woefully outdated and bloated and needs to be cleaned up. There are only a few useful tabs on our website currently: the front page, product update, and in-stock. Most of the others are relics! Will make down a note to see about at the very least leaving the tabs fully empty (things like Bruises should not be there--and books like Sieber's newest aren't technically a preorder at all, but fully released and in need of updating!)

I wish you and CD well.