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    #31
    Originally posted by Tommy View Post
    CDs, especially those we play and handle the most, can degrade. It's called bronzing. Leaving your CDs in a hot car is a great way to deteriorate them faster. A digital copy will sound the same on the first play as it will on the 1,000 play.
    I don't think a lot of people that go on about having physical copies of things get this; CDs have a shelf life, and the more you use them, the quicker that end date approaches. "Well I just won't play it!" Ok, that's cool, but then what's the point of even having it?

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      #32
      Originally posted by slayn666 View Post
      I don't think a lot of people that go on about having physical copies of things get this; CDs have a shelf life, and the more you use them, the quicker that end date approaches. "Well I just won't play it!" Ok, that's cool, but then what's the point of even having it?
      I have a cassette of Danny Elfman's score to Tim Burton's BATMAN that I bought in 1988. I must have listened to this thing AT LEAST 5,000 times. Still plays. Just sayin'.
      I "own" a ton of digital music, but I'd much rather have hard copies.
      http://thecrabbyreviewer.blogspot.com/

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        #33
        I own a shitload of CDs, most of which are only used once to copy them to iTunes, and from there I listen to the music.

        All other approaches require that I trust someone, and Iím unwilling to do that.

        If I find a CD that no longer works, Iíll buy a new copy, but Iím 50 and I expect my CDs to outlive me.
        Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

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          #34
          I actually agree about physical media for the most part, it's just realistically the people that care about that sort of stuff are a diminishing breed. Younger generations really just prefer the convenience of digital. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the younger generations aren't even buying music anymore and are just paying for services like Spotify. Personally I don't listen to enough music to do either, I listen mostly to audio books these days, and when I do listen to music I prefer a radio type format (not actual radio) where it just shuffles through a genera or music related to a specific band or artist. I think the last album I bought was the soundtrack to Mad Max: Fury Road.
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            #35
            Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
            ...the people that care about that sort of stuff are a diminishing breed.
            I expect that it can only diminish until it reaches a natural, sustained level reflecting the non-top 40, non-"I just want to stream" crowd (those of us who take our music more seriously, as dreadfully pretentious as that sounds), and given that streaming has been ubiquitous for some time (who is left to convert?), I believe we've reached that point, but if we haven't, I doubt it can shrink much more. I am curious to see what the future holds, and I hope I'm never forced to abandon my old man ways.

            The pro-CD crowd is even further from the top 40/stream crowd than merely wanting a CD; we are consumers in the traditional sense, buying things like reissues and deluxe editions including Blu-Rays with video and/or 5.1 surround content etc.
            Last edited by St. Troy; 06-12-2019, 06:15 PM.
            Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

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              #36
              Originally posted by St. Troy View Post
              I expect that it can only diminish until it reaches a natural, sustained level reflecting the non-top 40, non-"I just want to stream" crowd (those of us who take our music more seriously, as dreadfully pretentious as that sounds), and given that streaming has been ubiquitous for some time (who is left to convert?), I believe we've reached that point, but if we haven't, I doubt it can shrink much more. I am curious to see what the future holds, and I hope I'm never forced to abandon my old man ways.

              The pro-CD crowd is even further from the top 40/stream crowd than merely wanting a CD; we are consumers in the traditional sense, buying things like reissues and deluxe editions including Blu-Rays with video and/or 5.1 surround content etc.
              It sounds morbid, but all it takes for that CD crowd to diminish more is for the generations to die basically. For instance my Dad will never understand streaming services, but my nephews will probably never buy a CD. So 30 years from now when my nephews are my age there's going to be less people buying CDs, and say 30 years after that there may be no one left buying them. This is music specific, video is much harder to predict, video formats kinda kill off themselves over time just to increasing resolutions. We're already on the 4th or 5th physical format for movies in my lifetime. VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, Blu-Ray, and 4k Blu-Ray. Once we're into 8k the Blu-Ray format won't work anymore. I'll be really curious to see what they replace it with, if anything.

              As far as the future of physical music goes, I think most likely what we'll see is CDs go away but vinyl becomes more and more popular, with vinyl being the "physical" format of music and everything else being digital. I don't think this change is happening soon though. It'll be gradual over the next 30+ years, unless something changes in the industry that puts the places that sell those things out of business. These things can happen pretty quickly, just look at Blockbuster and Suncoast video.
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                #37
                Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
                It sounds morbid, but all it takes for that CD crowd to diminish more is for the generations to die basically. For instance my Dad will never understand streaming services, but my nephews will probably never buy a CD. So 30 years from now when my nephews are my age there's going to be less people buying CDs, and say 30 years after that there may be no one left buying them. This is music specific, video is much harder to predict, video formats kinda kill off themselves over time just to increasing resolutions. We're already on the 4th or 5th physical format for movies in my lifetime. VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, Blu-Ray, and 4k Blu-Ray. Once we're into 8k the Blu-Ray format won't work anymore. I'll be really curious to see what they replace it with, if anything.

                As far as the future of physical music goes, I think most likely what we'll see is CDs go away but vinyl becomes more and more popular, with vinyl being the "physical" format of music and everything else being digital. I don't think this change is happening soon though. It'll be gradual over the next 30+ years, unless something changes in the industry that puts the places that sell those things out of business. These things can happen pretty quickly, just look at Blockbuster and Suncoast video.
                Well put Dan, I think you nailed it.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
                  ...all it takes for that CD crowd to diminish more is for the generations to die basically.
                  That assumes no one under 50 (to pick an age) has the "non-top 40"/"non-streaming" attitude I described, which I doubt is the case. The borderline audiophile group (with some crossover in the pro-vinyl crowd) is who I refer to, and they are not all old.
                  Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by St. Troy View Post
                    That assumes no one under 50 (to pick an age) has the "non-top 40"/"non-streaming" attitude I described, which I doubt is the case. The borderline audiophile group (with some crossover in the pro-vinyl crowd) is who I refer to, and they are not all old.
                    The problem is that in my opinion that CDs have no play on the whole idea of audiophile. There is no quality advantage over a CD vs. a digital copy. Maybe over streaming, but this isn't really a streaming vs. cd debate in my mind, it's a streaming vs digital distribution debate. I just feel that if you're the audiophile type you'd go after vinyl not cds. CDs are for the physical format focused, which these younger generations aren't. It's really a instant gratification generation. I don't think the whole "top 40" thing has anything to do with it either. Honestly the indie scene of certain genres entirely thrives off of digital distribution, because they can self publish and self distribute. I honestly think you'd be hard pressed these days to find someone under 25 with a CD collection. There's gonna be outliers, but outliers can't support the industry.
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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
                      There is no quality advantage over a CD vs. a digital copy.
                      All digital copies aren't alike; mp3s and lossless files aren't the same, and with streaming, you're always at the mercy of the provider's choices.

                      But even were quality uniform, CDs need possess no quality advantage, because many consumers (me, and others who buy what I buy) who prioritize audio quality also prioritize control over the nature of the product (digital in hand is not synonymous to digital out of hand), and this "caring" is the opposite of the apathy that defines the "instant gratification generation" to which you refer, what I call the "top 40 crowd," those casual consumers who flock to the lowest cost/easiest delivery model every time. That crowd is huge in number and defines most of the industry, but not all.

                      Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
                      ...if you're the audiophile type you'd go after vinyl not cds.
                      "Audiophile" is definitely not synonymous with "pro-vinyl;" the vinyl vs. digital debate has been just that, a debate, since CDs hit the scene. Artists releasing the CD/Blu-Ray material I referenced earlier tend to simultaneously release vinyl editions - audiophiles are generally united in their fondness for physical media.

                      Originally posted by Dan Hocker View Post
                      There's gonna be outliers, but outliers can't support the industry.
                      I'm not talking about supporting the industry; "outliers" = "niche," which is what I'm saying: that CDs shrunk from "default" to "niche" (as opposed to extinct), and "niche" I believe it will remain.
                      Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

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                        #41
                        At the ripe old age of 46, I listen to all my music digitally. Have for years now but still have a ton of CDs stored away. Just felt wrong to throw them away.

                        I'm still into hard disc for movies though. Still cheaper to rent a movie from Redbox than to rent it digitally or stream it. Which I don't get because there's no physical media involved. Why is that?

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                          #42
                          I still listen to CDs in the car and at work sometimes.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by St. Troy View Post
                            All digital copies aren't alike; mp3s and lossless files aren't the same, and with streaming, you're always at the mercy of the provider's choices.

                            But even were quality uniform, CDs need possess no quality advantage, because many consumers (me, and others who buy what I buy) who prioritize audio quality also prioritize control over the nature of the product (digital in hand is not synonymous to digital out of hand), and this "caring" is the opposite of the apathy that defines the "instant gratification generation" to which you refer, what I call the "top 40 crowd," those casual consumers who flock to the lowest cost/easiest delivery model every time. That crowd is huge in number and defines most of the industry, but not all.



                            "Audiophile" is definitely not synonymous with "pro-vinyl;" the vinyl vs. digital debate has been just that, a debate, since CDs hit the scene. Artists releasing the CD/Blu-Ray material I referenced earlier tend to simultaneously release vinyl editions - audiophiles are generally united in their fondness for physical media.



                            I'm not talking about supporting the industry; "outliers" = "niche," which is what I'm saying: that CDs shrunk from "default" to "niche" (as opposed to extinct), and "niche" I believe it will remain.
                            Look I agree with you about physical media. We can argue this all day, but I just fundamentally don't agree with you about CDs place in the market and their staying power. I think the people who care about physical media are a dying breed and at some point we'll be forced out. It's basically already happened to PC video games and the consoles are on their way there. Honestly had Microsoft had their way 6 years ago they already would be there. There's just no reason to believe that that trend will stay isolated to video games and computer software alone. It'll hit music and movies eventually as well. The publishers, record labels, and movie studios just won't give us a choice.
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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Brian861 View Post
                              I'm still into hard disc for movies though. Still cheaper to rent a movie from Redbox than to rent it digitally or stream it. Which I don't get because there's no physical media involved. Why is that?
                              It's mostly because the overhead on Redbox is basically nothing and the movie studios don't have any control over RedBox's pricing. RedBox buys the movies once then rents them out, they don't have to pay a "per rent royalty". The digital renting prices are negotiated between the studios and the company doing the renting, the company renting gets a cut and the movie studios get a cut. They're also not really looking to compete with Redbox in terms of pricing. The way they compete is in convince.
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                                #45
                                I'm not a big music fan and no where near an audiophile so I don't have a dog in that fight. I am, however, a big proponent of movies on physical media. Streaming is nowhere near as good as a Blu-ray and sometimes you can't even track down titles digitally. My nephew had never seen the remake of THE GRUDGE and we searched for it streaming somewhere and no dice. Now I'm not going to argue the merits of THE GRUDGE remake (it's not that great), but you'd think that someone somewhere would be streaming this.
                                Also, no special features. There is a HUGE difference between a movie on Netflix and a Criterion or Scream Factory disc. Thick booklets with well thought out criticism and historical perspective and multiple features of either shorts, student films or interviews that are more than just five minute fluff pieces. These are components that don't just make it a hard copy of a disc, but a comprehensive appreciation of a film. Yep, most people are into that, but it's surprising how many truly are or develop into that love over time.

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