Suntup Editions - All Books

[Brian861]

I know that this topic has been discussed at length over on TDT, but Paul's books are definitely a step, maybe two steps, above what the rest of the small publisher world is doing, and the quality is definitely worth the price.

Now saying that, there's no way I can justify spending that much money on a single book - at what seems like a two book per year release schedule. Especially for a book or author I've never read before. (I was tempted for Hill House, but after reading the book for the first time, I'm glad I didn't spend the money. Similar with Rosemary's Baby - I've never read the book, or seen the movie, just know the name.) I've bought so many blind purchases from CD and SubPress and Centipede, that I can't do it, especially when it's $700.

I can't enjoy the Bentley lifestyle on my 1988 S-10 budget . . .

Those of you who can and did - congrats! I'm sure it'll be spectacular! And I'm jealous.

Although you don't need the book at this price to enjoy it, Jason, you should pick up a beat up copy of the book at some point. It's a great read and probably one, if not the best, adaptation of a novel to screen.

Wasn't saying to lower the quality. What i was saying is what I keep seeing sub press doing. 500 books for 80$ each, 1000 books for 40$ and so on. Yes that does decrease the "limited"ness of the book i completely agree. I wasn't even saying to double the book count, if he offered say 50 books more, perhaps the price could be a bit lower... Oh well, it's whoever thinks the book is worth it, they will buy it, since there will always be fans of an author.

I'll apologize in advance but there's no way in hell you can compare a $40, $80, etc book to Paul's press. What you're getting from these other small presses are basically a "better" trade edition at that price point. Furthermore, I find it annoying and tacky that each time Paul releases a book, some folks get all up in the air over the price. Paul's books will always be at this price point or higher. That's not going to change, ever. It's unfortunate that Paul wasn't able to offer an AGE this time. No doubt he would have if you could have. It's also unfortunate that not everyone can afford his books. There was a time that I couldn't afford them as well. But don't begrudge those that can or choose to pay the asking price. I'm sure plenty of more folks can afford it and choose not to make a purchase.

[Brian James Freeman]

This isn't directed at anyone, but just a reminder to keep things respectful, please.

The price of this "kind" of Limited Edition is always a topic of discussion and that's very understandable. Expensive things are interesting to discuss! Beautiful books are interesting to discuss! Thus, beautiful expensive books are very interesting. At least if you're one of the maniacs who hangs out in places like this!

For anyone who wonders "where the money goes," I've priced out the specs on books like this. To do them right, the way Paul does, isn't cheap. Tons of hand-labor. Lots of custom-made pieces.

I've also done the cost analysis on scaling up a print run to lower the price point, and that is really easy to do with a traditionally manufactured book for sure... You run the risk of printing more copies than you can sell, of course, if the lower price doesn't attract enough customers to buy those additional copies.

But for books that have so much hand labor, customized features, exotic material, etc... scaling up doesn't put nearly the dent in the retail price as you would expect. ("Wow, that hand-woven cloth from India is $50,000 for the amount I need, but if I double the size of the order that'll be...$98,000." or "These hand-made cases cost $915 each for 30, but if have 60 made it'll be $905 each...")

Just my two cents from having run specs for 300+ books ranging from trade editions to $3000 Lettered Editions over the past 16 years.

Best,
Brian

[mhatchett]

This is all I have to say about that...“To be a book-collector is to combine the worst characteristics of a dope fiend with those of a miser.”
Robertson Davies. LOL!!

[Dan Hocker]

This isn't directed at anyone, but just a reminder to keep things respectful, please.

The price of this "kind" of Limited Edition is always a topic of discussion and that's very understandable. Expensive things are interesting to discuss! Beautiful books are interesting to discuss! Thus, beautiful expensive books are very interesting. At least if you're one of the maniacs who hangs out in places like this!

For anyone who wonders "where the money goes," I've priced out the specs on books like this. To do them right, the way Paul does, isn't cheap. Tons of hand-labor. Lots of custom-made pieces.

I've also done the cost analysis on scaling up a print run to lower the price point, and that is really easy to do with a traditionally manufactured book for sure... You run the risk of printing more copies than you can sell, of course, if the lower price doesn't attract enough customers to buy those additional copies.

But for books that have so much hand labor, customized features, exotic material, etc... scaling up doesn't put nearly the dent in the retail price as you would expect. ("Wow, that hand-woven cloth from India is $50,000 for the amount I need, but if I double the size of the order that'll be...$98,000." or "These hand-made cases cost $915 each for 30, but if have 60 made it'll be $905 each...")

Just my two cents from having run specs for 300+ books ranging from trade editions to $3000 Lettered Editions over the past 16 years.

Best,
Brian

Yea that's pretty much where I was coming from as well. Sure you get bulk discounts on materials, but they tend to not make much of a dent. In hand made stuff it's all labor costs really and there's no bulk discounts on labor. This is coming not from the perspective Brian has knowing the actual costs of things, but from the perspective of someone who makes stuff by hand and sells them.

[Martin]

I disagree with you on one point--all his books are for me!

Don't get me wrong I would love to own everyone of them. The not for me in this case is strictly due to "price point" not matching my "must have" threshold.

[jeffingoff]

This is all I have to say about that...“To be a book-collector is to combine the worst characteristics of a dope fiend with those of a miser.”
Robertson Davies. LOL!!

That's too perfect. We want it all. We want it now. We want it limited. We want it at the price we say.

[bsaenz24]

That's too perfect. We want it all. We want it now. We want it limited. We want it at the price we say.

You forgot “in stock now!!” Jeez Jeff! Oops nevermind.

[TacomaDiver]

Although you don't need the book at this price to enjoy it, Jason, you should pick up a beat up copy of the book at some point. It's a great read and probably one, if not the best, adaptation of a novel to screen.

You're not the boss of me Brian!

[Martin]

You're not the boss of me Brian!

So you haven't been told yet.

[TacomaDiver]

So you haven't been told yet.

I'm sure the notice is in the mail.

[Dave1442397]

I'd compare Paul's books more to Charnel House than any other small press I know of. Charnel House publishes a lot of Dean Koontz and Tim Powers books, but the only book I've ever bought from them was the numbered edition of this one, which, if I remember correctly, was still around $600 even with a discount back in 2011 - https://charnelhouse.com/product/the...arlan-ellison/

[Ben Staad]

Agreed. I think of Charnel House in regards to market comparison as well.

I'd compare Paul's books more to Charnel House than any other small press I know of. Charnel House publishes a lot of Dean Koontz and Tim Powers books, but the only book I've ever bought from them was the numbered edition of this one, which, if I remember correctly, was still around $600 even with a discount back in 2011 - https://charnelhouse.com/product/the...arlan-ellison/

[St. Troy]

BJF, thanks for the insight. Reading the descriptions of the 2 Suntup Rosemary's Baby editions, it would be tough to see how they could be priced much lower.

I'm curious about the decision not to do 3rd tier/"Artist Gift Editions" for The Haunting Of Hill House and Rosemary's Baby; I wonder if the need to sell a higher quantity (which was 1,000 for Horns and 1,250 for Misery) tested confidence in the ability of THOHH and RB (although historically relevant and respected enough to easily move limited quantities of lettered and numbered editions, especially with Suntup's production values) to find a market for that higher quantity.

Certainly, none of which is to criticize Suntup; I'm merely curious (and mostly curious about AGEs because my budget is on the low side ).

[Sock Monkey]

Looks like I missed the bulk of this conversation, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.

I like what Suntup is doing. I like that there is a publisher out there producing these kind of high-end books with unique designs that make them more a centerpiece for display than just a book on a shelf. I hope that they continue to be very successful, because anything that gets people excited about books is a good thing. Unfortunately, these books just aren't for me or meant for someone in my budget range.

As for the price point, this is all relative. The price point is seen as a "too much" from my perspective because:

1. My income dictates that this is beyond what is reasonable to spend on a book. If I made more money, then this might not be the case. This is a matter of perspective though, because to the "normal" book buyer, us here on this forum that regularly spend $40 to $100+ on a single book is seen as ridiculous. When I discuss my book collecting and share that a particular book cost $200, most people's heads explode at the thought.

2. My desire for this particular book is not high enough to warrant that amount of money. I have no personal connection or history to the book, so the rationalization to spend that much is diminished. If this was Straub's Ghost Story, I wouldn't think twice about snatching up a limited for $695 (I'd have to do some VERY serious thinking about dropping $4k on a lettered, though). But I'm willing to spend that due to the personal significance that the book has to me. Other collectors might look at me crossed-eyed.

Due I wish that Suntup could do Artist Editions for all books? Yeah, I'd love to support them. Do I want them to change their business model to make their product price more palatable to me? Nah, this is passion at work here, they should do as they see fit.


I'm just glad that we have company's like Suntup, Centipede, Thunderstorm, Earthling, Subterranean, Charnel House, SST, PS, and, of course, Cemetery Dance that are putting out these books, because the Lord knows that they aren't doing it for the money. And, in my humble opinion, without them, the world--or at least MY world--would be a little less bright.

[Sock Monkey]

BJF, thanks for the insight. Reading the descriptions of the 2 Suntup Rosemary's Baby editions, it would be tough to see how they could be priced much lower.

I'm curious about the decision not to do 3rd tier/"Artist Gift Editions" for The Haunting Of Hill House and Rosemary's Baby; I wonder if the need to sell a higher quantity (which was 1,000 for Horns and 1,250 for Misery) tested confidence in the ability of THOHH and RB (although historically relevant and respected enough to easily move limited quantities of lettered and numbered editions, especially with Suntup's production values) to find a market for that higher quantity.

Certainly, none of which is to criticize Suntup; I'm merely curious (and mostly curious about AGEs because my budget is on the low side ).

The decision to not do Artist's Editions is probably all contractual. Even if Suntup wanted to, they might not have been allowed to.