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Thread: A question for the "real" authors

  1. #21
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    [Find's a spot at Caren's bar] Twelve please!

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    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed RJHubbard53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.W. LaSart View Post
    Well I will make the martini's I guess-dirty or otherwise! I am the professional...bartender that is!
    I used to be but now just an afficionado - my specialty is the margarita, fresh squeezed and no triple sec!
    It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

  3. #23
    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication C.W. LaSart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    I used to be but now just an afficionado - my specialty is the margarita, fresh squeezed and no triple sec!
    Then you can make those!

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    Ozmosis7, why do you say that self-publishing will taint you with agents and traditional markets? I would think that they would like to see a following for a book and see the possibilities that nationwide/worldwide marketing could do?

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    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    Ozmosis7, why do you say that self-publishing will taint you with agents and traditional markets? I would think that they would like to see a following for a book and see the possibilities that nationwide/worldwide marketing could do?
    Well, it's one thing if you have a following like Amanda Hocking. But, success like that self-pubbing is as rare as a traditional success. When you go the self-pubbing route, you have established you are fine with working on your own, and thus I would imagine taking money out of agent's hands, as well as a publisher. However, there's several layers, like an onion, in between those two extremes. I have just caught wind that there are several agents/publishers that won't bother looking at you once you self-pub. This is why when you go to sell your book, other authors ask you that question. If you've already self-pubbed, I don't think it marks you so much, as if you have a track record. There is a lot of talk out there, and I am not sure anyone knows the modern rules of the game, but that's what I have heard from some pretty straight up people. All that being said, if you can reach Hocking's success, go all out for it. Also, if you feel the traditional route will never find you well, you might decide to try to take that route. After all, very few successful ends take the same roads.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    Thinking on this more, rather than post links I've found, I'll just state what it was. There was an article about Hocking, discussing how she made so much she was untouchable by publishers. Recently, she did just sign with a publisher.

    Jeff Strand used to self-pub, and was picked up for a publishing deal. One of the guys he co-authored a self-pubbed book with is still doing so successfully, claiming he will make over $500k this year. Whether or not some of his success comes from having co-authored a book with a Stoker award winner is up in the air.

    Many others who have been kind enough to share their earnings from self-pubbing, are reporting 20 or copies sold per a month of their books. That isn't quite as successful. A lot of that could be due to marketing techniques, as the one author above that is doing well had a strategy he lived by. I have seen another self-pubbed author use the same marketing techniques and be successful as well. So there is something to that.

    So a very successful author might do fine, and get a traditional contract. I've just been told by a lot of authors with bigger names that is a bad idea to go that route. They claim that there are several publishers/agents who won't even look at you once you self-pub. And again, everything I put here is from articles, research, and word of mouth, so its fallible to a degree. But as much as there are some that won't look at you, I am sure there are plenty that will if you are successful. And that last part has been proven.

    Hope that clears up some and helps. Good luck.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed mlouisdixon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozmosis7 View Post
    Jeff Strand used to self-pub, and was picked up for a publishing deal. One of the guys he co-authored a self-pubbed book with is still doing so successfully, claiming he will make over $500k this year. Whether or not some of his success comes from having co-authored a book with a Stoker award winner is up in the air.
    The guy who collaborated with Jeff was probably J. A. Konrath. He already had a pretty good following before he went the self-publishing route. Sure, he's a big proponent but is he a model example of the success an unknown author can achieveónot at all.

    I donít know about agents or publishers dismissing authors whoíve already self-published. Seems a tad bit extreme. Most the agents and publishers that Iíve spoken with would love to represent or publish someone who comes with a successful selling record. People hate to take risks.

    My friend John Rector actually published his first novel through Amazon as an E-book just as an experiment. He got tired of the novel getting rejected. Turns out it was a bit of a success. He then got a publishing deal with Tor for his next book. Now heís done a major deal with Amazonís publishing house. Pretty awesome for him. He still recommends going the traditional route. Thereís nothing like having your work vetted by a professional publishing house to validate you as an author.

    MLD

  8. #28
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    Wow, that's awesome. I think it depends on who you ask or what you read, as to what you hear. Like I said, I think this was once the case, and in the modern day, no one really knows for sure. Seeing someone get a deal that way first hand though, is great. Tor is certainly a pretty big name too, so it's good to see, but they also aren't all thats out there. My statement just said some. So the idea is that you would be limiting your audience. Could this all be some old hoopla, that has been carried over into an age where it isn't really true? Who knows, but there is also a reason why you see so many authors publishing their books with small presses, rather than going the self-pubbing route.

    I believe you are correct about the name of the guy I was talking about too. I wasn't saying he was a model, so much as his marketing strategy was if you are going that route. I doubt any of us would shake our heads at making $500k a year. So, if you are going that route, it's worth reading his blog, because he talks about what he has done. I would read others too.

    This is also what I meant by the no two roads to the same end thing. Those words come from an article where the author proposes you just do what you do, because you have as good of a shot making it regardless of which path you take. I will say that I have come across more of the 20 per a month types, than the other though--so it is just as difficult a road. I think some of that is due to not having an editor--maybe.

    From everything I have heard and seen though, I would exhaust all of your avenues through the traditional route first. Give it a real god shot, and try to get better as a writer. If nothing else, you prepare yourself better for self-pubbing. But I guess it also depends what you want to get out of your writing career. If you don't care about such things, than why bother worrying about it? Heck, if I was a rich man I'd have all the CD books and be throwing my stuff up on Amazon for $.99--maybe.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    Also, that many roads concept can go back to one great quote that should inspire...

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ Thomas Edison

    Keep on writing.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed Craig Wallwork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlouisdixon View Post
    My friend John Rector actually published his first novel through Amazon as an E-book just as an experiment. He got tired of the novel getting rejected. Turns out it was a bit of a success. He then got a publishing deal with Tor for his next book. Now he’s done a major deal with Amazon’s publishing house. Pretty awesome for him. He still recommends going the traditional route. There’s nothing like having your work vetted by a professional publishing house to validate you as an author.

    MLD
    That's great to hear. I think there is a tendency, as mentioned, to steer clear of self-publishing because there is the assumption those that do it have failed getting a publishing deal, which then has people questioning if it was any good or not. Axel Taiari self published his vampire novella, A Light To Starve By, via Amazon and it's been very well received. We've discussed this subject in depth and there is a real divide. i think most people will go down the traditional route of publisher first, but once they've landed on their arse for the 1000th time, the temptation is there. Regardless of what we think of SP, it still gets your words out to the masses. Too, there is already a shift with certain publishing houses only releasing electronic versions. I think this a happy medium. If you can't get into print, but don't want to self publish, then look for publishing houses that do electronic editions only. With kindle taking off big time and outselling hardbacks on Amazon, people will move more toward electronic versions. Myself, I sometimes buy a Kindle version of a book first, and if i like it, buy a first edition hardback from Abebooks.

    Good luck, whatever route you take.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    I agree, Craig. In hindsight, my initial words were much too harsh--and thus it is not the kiss of death. I have heard it called that though, and that is why the words came to mind.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed RJHubbard53's Avatar
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    I've heard it mentioned here that if a story is posted in a public setting, it is not marketable. Why is that? Also, if one were to have a blog and post their short stories, is that considered self-publication? Is that story then not-marketable to plublishers?
    It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

  13. #33
    Senior Member Hearing Voices ozmosis7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    I've heard it mentioned here that if a story is posted in a public setting, it is not marketable. Why is that?
    Most publishers ask for 1st rights, and if the story has been posted somewhere, than it has already used its first rights. However, it can always be pulled down or altered, etc to make it marketable. And the publisher would have to see or hear about it to know. I just wouldn't leave something up in plain view if you are going to try and sell it

    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    Also, if one were to have a blog and post their short stories, is that considered self-publication? Is that story then not-marketable to plublishers?
    Many authors write serial novels or the like to draw fans to their websites. I am currently trying this myself for the 2nd time. Once you are done, typically the story is pulled down, and it is treated like a rough draft. So you basically are reworking the story for the purpose of selling it, but usually you divulge that information to the publishers.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Inmate RichardThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    I've heard it mentioned here that if a story is posted in a public setting, it is not marketable. Why is that? Also, if one were to have a blog and post their short stories, is that considered self-publication? Is that story then not-marketable to plublishers?
    I think we talked about that earlier, but yes, if you have a story "out there" in any form, it can be considered "published" even if it's your blog. Depends on a publisher. Why would an online site want to run your story if it's available easily and for FREE elsewhere? If you have a story that you want to shop/sell then don't put it on your blog or anywhere else. Pull it at once. Editors DO Google your name and story. If you pull it, sure, you can shop it. If it's in a PRIVATE forum that is not available to the public, you can sell it. I even did a Google search on my own story here at CD in the contest and nothing came up on the first few pages. I'm shopping that story. And if I don't make the finals, and/or don't make the final three I'll pull it at once, since I'm shopping it as we speak. Hope that helps, RJ.

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    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed RJHubbard53's Avatar
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    thanks, Richard. Here's another question regarding submissions. Many do not accept simultaneous submissions which means you can only "shop" your story to one place at a time, right? Upon rejection, that story is free to submit to others, right? If I am right on this, it means you have to have many manuscripts and stories ready to go. Do you find yourself writing for a specific market or writing a piece and finding a market?
    It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

  16. #36
    Senior Member Inmate RichardThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    thanks, Richard. Here's another question regarding submissions. Many do not accept simultaneous submissions which means you can only "shop" your story to one place at a time, right? Upon rejection, that story is free to submit to others, right? If I am right on this, it means you have to have many manuscripts and stories ready to go. Do you find yourself writing for a specific market or writing a piece and finding a market?
    i just posted up about this in another thread - SS are tough, unless they have a fast response time, i tend to ignore them, especially if the market is <1% acceptance rates, as the odds are just so against you - yes, upon rejection you can keep submitting, and i often have several stories out to anywhere from 5-15 markets all at the same time - that's why i use duotrope.com to keep track of it all, i'd lose my mind if i didn't - sometimes i write towards a specific market, but most of the time, say 75% of the time, i just write what excites me and then look for a market when it's done

    here is my column on simultaneous submissions:
    http://whatdoesnotkillme.com/2009/08/31/simultaneous/

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    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed Craig Wallwork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
    thanks, Richard. Here's another question regarding submissions. Many do not accept simultaneous submissions which means you can only "shop" your story to one place at a time, right? Upon rejection, that story is free to submit to others, right? If I am right on this, it means you have to have many manuscripts and stories ready to go. Do you find yourself writing for a specific market or writing a piece and finding a market?
    Richard pretty much covered it, RJ, but yeah, there is a tendency for people to ignore that rule and SS anyway. If you get accepted at two places, two places that you really wanted to get into, then ethically it's unfair that you went through the process, and frustrating for the editor you have to apologise to when you say, "Oh, did I submit to you? Sorry, it must have been my partner. They do that sometimes. I really need to change my email password. Sorry."

    That said, I'd avoid submitting to them again for a while.

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    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed RJHubbard53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Wallwork View Post
    Richard pretty much covered it, RJ, but yeah, there is a tendency for people to ignore that rule and SS anyway. If you get accepted at two places, two places that you really wanted to get into, then ethically it's unfair that you went through the process, and frustrating for the editor you have to apologise to when you say, "Oh, did I submit to you? Sorry, it must have been my partner. They do that sometimes. I really need to change my email password. Sorry."

    That said, I'd avoid submitting to them again for a while.
    thanks, Craig. i think i'll take a more conservative approach and try to avoid pissing off any editors in my early days of submissions.
    It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

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    Junior Member Visitor Nocdar's Avatar
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    Writing: you do it because you need to. Even most authors have a real job.
    ~^~You can't win if you don't play~^~

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    Member Part-timer KT Wagner's Avatar
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    Write non-fiction and on contract to pay the bills. Write fiction as you can.

    Gradually work to shift the balance.

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