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Thread: I Am Legend - Suntup Press

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    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I've never thought these added any value to a book FWIW.
    Yeah it all depends. But that's a selection (much like the artist) that opens the door to criticism for the publisher. I'd imagine it's so much easier when the author is alive and agrees to sign. The selection is made for the publisher. But when that's not the case, people will wonder and worry over the connection of the signer to the work. It's a legitimate question for sure. I'm thrilled to be getting a Chuck Palahniuk signature in Rosemary's Baby. And a Joyce Carol Oates signature in The Road. Though I see them as cherries on top. Awesome to have, and adding value for me, but secondary to the materials and production.

    Compared to Gauntlet's lettered edition of RUSTY PUPPY--the only thing that added value to the edition was the inclusion of James Purefoy's signature along with Lansdale's. The quality of the edition was no better than a trade.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Starting to Drool Incessantly Brian861's Avatar
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    I get the cost of the other letters due to all the bells and whistles associated with them. This lettered seems to be the tamest for lack of a better word so the cost seems higher from my POV. Doesn't matter in the scheme of things though as a lettered will never go unsold. I know I'd jump on one if I could afford it given the opportunity. A lot of this ride is about what's coming around the corner next. You never know with Paul. I've heard from several collectors say if the price point for the limiteds gets higher, it'd price them out of the game. Paul's been really consistent thus far IMO. I'm sure he's taking all these things into consideration.

    Just a side note. Martin created a separate thread for the new release but everything keeps ending up here. Should we just consolidate all things Suntup into one thread like over on TDT?

  3. #23
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Yeah it all depends. But that's a selection (much like the artist) that opens the door to criticism for the publisher. I'd imagine it's so much easier when the author is alive and agrees to sign. The selection is made for the publisher. But when that's not the case, people will wonder and worry over the connection of the signer to the work. It's a legitimate question for sure. I'm thrilled to be getting a Chuck Palahniuk signature in Rosemary's Baby. And a Joyce Carol Oates signature in The Road. Though I see them as cherries on top. Awesome to have, and adding value for me, but secondary to the materials and production.

    Compared to Gauntlet's lettered edition of RUSTY PUPPY--the only thing that added value to the edition was the inclusion of James Purefoy's signature along with Lansdale's. The quality of the edition was no better than a trade.
    I think Rusty Puppy is a bad example though. You're comparing a $150 lettered edition to a $3,000 lettered edition. Also that quality statement is a bit of an unfair exaggeration. I haven't seen the Rusty Puppy lettered edition, but I would assume it was produced the same way Gauntlet's other recent lettered editions were. So at the very least it's probably bound in leather, has a ribbon page marker, and comes in a tray case. Which is generally what you can expect from a $100 - $150 lettered edition.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hocker View Post
    I think Rusty Puppy is a bad example though. You're comparing a $150 lettered edition to a $3,000 lettered edition. Also that quality statement is a bit of an unfair exaggeration. I haven't seen the Rusty Puppy lettered edition, but I would assume it was produced the same way Gauntlet's other recent lettered editions were. So at the very least it's probably bound in leather, has a ribbon page marker, and comes in a tray case. Which is generally what you can expect from a $100 - $150 lettered edition.
    That is fair and I'll "walk it back" like our more level-headed politicians often do.

    I fully appreciate the price difference means that these two books can't be compared. And I wasn't really comparing them. I was speaking only about the value a signature brings and how it all depends on the context--who is signing and where it appears.

    It's true the book is bound in leather, comes in a tray case and has a ribbon page marker. But the paper quality is GOD AWFUL. I can't imagine these pages remaining white beyond 5 years. They're so flimsy it's like the book was printed on toilet paper. And don't even get me started on the DJ art! Don't EVEN get me started.

    If I were to compare along price points, then I'd take Suntup's AGE of Horns, or your gift edition of IT, or your numbered On This The Day of the Pig, or SST's The Listener over Gauntlet's Rusty Puppy any day. All of those books were less expensive than Rusty Puppy. That book made me unsubscribe from Barry's newsletter.

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    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    But when that's not the case, people will wonder and worry over the connection of the signer to the work. It's a legitimate question for sure. I'm thrilled to be getting a Chuck Palahniuk signature in Rosemary's Baby. And a Joyce Carol Oates signature in The Road. Though I see them as cherries on top. Awesome to have, and adding value for me,
    See, and for me that Palahniuk involvement diminishes my interest in the volume because I fail to see the legitimate connection between the introducer and the work. Oates is less a detriment because she and McCarthy are literary heavyweights, both members of a pretty rarified American fic-lit royalty, so to speak. But RB is a '70s icon of both film and prose, one that opened the door for mass-market horror; Palahniuk is neither a '70s figure nor a mass-market horror icon. He may know something about horror film, I don't know, but I suspect a lot of folks do. I'm sure he'll write a servicable, entertaining introduction, but his involvements feels tacked on, not organic to Levin's work, and I guess that organic nature is what it boils down to for me. To my mind, if it can't feel organic, then just leave it off altogether.

    Anyway, I don't mean to put a buzzkill on either Suntup or Jeff's enthusiasm for RB, so I'll leave it there. I made two longer comments r.e. this issueand IAL on page 276 of the Suntup thread at TDT.org if anyone's dying to hear me blather on more about it. http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...-Press/page276

  6. #26
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    That is fair and I'll "walk it back" like our more level-headed politicians often do.

    I fully appreciate the price difference means that these two books can't be compared. And I wasn't really comparing them. I was speaking only about the value a signature brings and how it all depends on the context--who is signing and where it appears.

    It's true the book is bound in leather, comes in a tray case and has a ribbon page marker. But the paper quality is GOD AWFUL. I can't imagine these pages remaining white beyond 5 years. They're so flimsy it's like the book was printed on toilet paper. And don't even get me started on the DJ art! Don't EVEN get me started.

    If I were to compare along price points, then I'd take Suntup's AGE of Horns, or your gift edition of IT, or your numbered On This The Day of the Pig, or SST's The Listener over Gauntlet's Rusty Puppy any day. All of those books were less expensive than Rusty Puppy. That book made me unsubscribe from Barry's newsletter.
    I definitely get what you're saying here. Every publisher has their own style, and it's not going to be for everyone. Take Suntup for example, I think he makes some beautiful books, but I personally don't care for "printed on boards". Which is what he's done for his gift edition slipcases (and binding too I think can't remember). PS Publishing does that as well, it's not necessarily bad, but for my personal tastes I'd much rather just have (the cases at least) be bound in cloth or some kind of synthetic and foil stamped.
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    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hocker View Post
    I definitely get what you're saying here. Every publisher has their own style, and it's not going to be for everyone. Take Suntup for example, I think he makes some beautiful books, but I personally don't care for "printed on boards". Which is what he's done for his gift edition slipcases (and binding too I think can't remember). PS Publishing does that as well, it's not necessarily bad, but for my personal tastes I'd much rather just have (the cases at least) be bound in cloth or some kind of synthetic and foil stamped.
    While both PS Publishing and Suntup Press use printed on boards I look at them very differently. PS uses them for limited editions rather than just gift editions. PS uses them on the cases and the books. I can only speak to Horns from Suntup but the book is fabric and foil stamped. The quality of the slipcases is dramatically different as well. PS slipcases feel like cardboard wrapped with a photo. The Horns slipcase feels like a box with a quality image affixed, it is actually one of the nicest slipcases I have seen.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    That is fair and I'll "walk it back" like our more level-headed politicians often do.

    I fully appreciate the price difference means that these two books can't be compared. And I wasn't really comparing them. I was speaking only about the value a signature brings and how it all depends on the context--who is signing and where it appears.

    It's true the book is bound in leather, comes in a tray case and has a ribbon page marker. But the paper quality is GOD AWFUL. I can't imagine these pages remaining white beyond 5 years. They're so flimsy it's like the book was printed on toilet paper. And don't even get me started on the DJ art! Don't EVEN get me started.

    If I were to compare along price points, then I'd take Suntup's AGE of Horns, or your gift edition of IT, or your numbered On This The Day of the Pig, or SST's The Listener over Gauntlet's Rusty Puppy any day. All of those books were less expensive than Rusty Puppy. That book made me unsubscribe from Barry's newsletter.
    A guy from Chicago talking about 'level headed politicians' like he has ever seen one!

  9. #29
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    While both PS Publishing and Suntup Press use printed on boards I look at them very differently. PS uses them for limited editions rather than just gift editions. PS uses them on the cases and the books. I can only speak to Horns from Suntup but the book is fabric and foil stamped. The quality of the slipcases is dramatically different as well. PS slipcases feel like cardboard wrapped with a photo. The Horns slipcase feels like a box with a quality image affixed, it is actually one of the nicest slipcases I have seen.
    Yea I don't really get that, but it may just be because I'm "in the know" so to speak. The only real difference between the paper material is the finish, Horns uses a matte finish while PS uses glossy. The paper is almost certainly the same (or very similar). But really it's not about quality here, I just don't like the printed on boards style, not matter how effective it's implemented.
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    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hocker View Post
    Yea I don't really get that, but it may just be because I'm "in the know" so to speak. The only real difference between the paper material is the finish, Horns uses a matte finish while PS uses glossy. The paper is almost certainly the same (or very similar). But really it's not about quality here, I just don't like the printed on boards style, not matter how effective it's implemented.
    The quality difference of the cases is hard to quantify. It is really more about the structure of the box.

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    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hocker View Post
    I definitely get what you're saying here. Every publisher has their own style, and it's not going to be for everyone. Take Suntup for example, I think he makes some beautiful books, but I personally don't care for "printed on boards". Which is what he's done for his gift edition slipcases (and binding too I think can't remember). PS Publishing does that as well, it's not necessarily bad, but for my personal tastes I'd much rather just have (the cases at least) be bound in cloth or some kind of synthetic and foil stamped.
    Now we're getting into the stylistic and creative choices which are much more subjective. You can make the personal decision that letterpress isn't something you value and therefore you won't pay more for it. And you can say that printed boards aren't your thing so you'll pass on those publishers who do it. But I think paper quality, the quality of the materials used, and the amount (not style) of art within the book is more objective.

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    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    A guy from Chicago talking about 'level headed politicians' like he has ever seen one!
    This is painfully on point. I walk back my statement about level-headed politicians and I'd like to preemptively apologize for any future comment I may post that could make it seem like I know anything about a two party system of government.

  13. #33
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Now we're getting into the stylistic and creative choices which are much more subjective. You can make the personal decision that letterpress isn't something you value and therefore you won't pay more for it. And you can say that printed boards aren't your thing so you'll pass on those publishers who do it. But I think paper quality, the quality of the materials used, and the amount (not style) of art within the book is more objective.
    You're not wrong. I can't speak to paper quality, I'm not familiar enough with Gauntlet's stuff and even if I was I wouldn't comment on the quality of another publisher's books.

    I can't really comment on the quantity of art either, 90% of our titles don't have interior art.
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    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hocker View Post
    You're not wrong. I can't speak to paper quality, I'm not familiar enough with Gauntlet's stuff and even if I was I wouldn't comment on the quality of another publisher's books.

    I can't really comment on the quantity of art either, 90% of our titles don't have interior art.
    Well, I love what I get from CD. Art or no art.

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    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication c marvel's Avatar
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    I changed my mind and did order the Gift Edition. ~Cap
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian861 View Post
    Not sure if you've ever ordered from Paul, Cap but the books are packed extremely well. Cased in custom foam.
    Books are weapons in the war of ideas.

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    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Well, I love what I get from CD. Art or no art.
    Ha. For interior art with us it's usually just about the price point of the title as a whole. It's very, very rarely you'll see interiors on one of our titles where the main editions is under $100 (with the exception of the Signature Series, as art is the whole point of the series). Sometimes the lack of art is the authors choice / preference (including cover art). Though I can only think of a handful of titles where the author didn't want any art on the book at all.
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    Senior Member Starting to Drool Incessantly Brian861's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c marvel View Post
    I changed my mind and did order the Gift Edition. ~Cap
    Good choice!

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    Junior Member Visitor Paul Suntup's Avatar
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    Part I

    If I think back to the spark of inspiration or the overarching vision of the press at its infancy, it was (and still is) about the desire to produce a book in such a way, so as to stand alongside some of the finest throughout the history of it all. I only travel the path, head bowed in reverence to the giants who came before, and humbly take my crack at it. Whether that goal is being achieved or not may be up for debate, but at the heart of it, is the desire. The essence of something that is not of modern times, but rather quite ancient.

    I consider myself an amateur. But I am one armed with the desire to produce a book. If I were to ask myself, what do I appreciate more. Paper or signature. Printing process or signature. Craft or signature. Tactility or signature. Scent or signature. History or signature. Art or signature. Binding design and execution or signature. Legacy or signature and so on...my answer would always be with the former; in every case.

    What I do is about the book. The book is the book is the book. The signature is not the book. This extends not only to the unique elements of production and materials, but also to the written word. It is driven by that. The story. The author. The worlds that exist only in our minds, the escape, the reach of it. The impact on popular culture, or the literary landscape. The great minds, the thinkers and dreamers, and yes in the words of Mr. Jobs, the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels. On the physical plane, that is who I serve. These people, and their words.

    And how do I do that? By making the best book I know how, and thereby honoring them in this way. And I tell you, signature has little to do with any of that. Nor does it have much at all to do with cost of production. What does is the materials, the paper, the printing, the binding, and so on. When I make a book, I am saying to the author, living or not; you are a genius. You moved me and so many others. And for that, I offer this.

    Part II

    Because of my lifelong love for this genre, this popular and fan culture, most of the books I make, and will continue to make fall within that space. And it is a space not entirely accustomed to the type of book I feel compelled to create. This is not uncharted territory, but I do feel that it is not often travelled.

    Many of the questions that come up are entirely valid. I honor them and respect them. The discussions that ensue are a good thing. A great thing. And then there are the opinions deficient in facts which would otherwise give them heft. We are presented with a chasm. We have become accustomed to equate price with signature for so long. We have become used to a certain price point, a level of quality. A look. A feel. I respect that. But with me producing what I am, at times it may require a paradigm shift.

    For some, it is jarring--an opportunity to criticize; and for others it is an entirely welcome and joyous event. And still for others, it is simply not their cup of tea and that is absolutely fine. You are not less than or more than for your pull toward or away from. You simply are, and should be anchored in that. As am I. Who I seek are lovers of the type of book I produce. Or those who perhaps did not put too much thought into it, but now do.

    I do not seek unending praise, but that which has come my way has been genuine and heartfelt, and for this I am most grateful. I am grateful to everyone who have supported the press, both as a customer or simply by cheering me on. I did not expect most of this, nor the level of enthusiasm for the books we make. It inspires me. It drives me to continue on. And if I mess up, don't be afraid to tell me. Constructively. Respectfully. Ask rather than judge. Comment with the armor of fact instead of the inefficiency of assumption. Or just speak your mind! I get a kick out of that too.

    Is there longevity in this? In some ways, that's irrelevant. The relevancy lies in the creating. And if there are people who rise to it, then it is meant to be that way. I seek to live an authentic life. We so often, and for so long, do not. And there is authenticity on this path and in the product of these immense efforts. And that is all I can ask for.

    Part III

    So as not to entirely diminish the signature as an integral part of the book, having been a collector and a fan, I understand the value and importance of it to many of us. It may not drive me, but I do not ignore it. Am I after a McCarthy signature? You bet I am!

    If through all of this, I do something to make you smile. To take you away from the pain points, to excite and animate. To inspire. To change your state from this to that, to give you pause. To pump the blood. To lift you off the ground. To make you feel alive. To champion the idea of following your dreams, no matter how impossible they may seem. Then I have done my job, and that alone is worth dedicating my life to.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication
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    Thanks for that, Paul. I, for one, love your books, although so far I've only gone for the Gift Editions. I need to send as much as possible to my retirement accounts

  20. #40
    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Paul, thanks for the perspective. Although not all your books will appeal to me, I respect the art you are producing each and every time you release one.

    I was able to get Joe to sign my Suntup Horns ARC last night as well!

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