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Thread: Suntup Press - Fourth Book

  1. #61
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    This isn't directed at anyone, but just a reminder to keep things respectful, please.

    The price of this "kind" of Limited Edition is always a topic of discussion and that's very understandable. Expensive things are interesting to discuss! Beautiful books are interesting to discuss! Thus, beautiful expensive books are very interesting. At least if you're one of the maniacs who hangs out in places like this!

    For anyone who wonders "where the money goes," I've priced out the specs on books like this. To do them right, the way Paul does, isn't cheap. Tons of hand-labor. Lots of custom-made pieces.

    I've also done the cost analysis on scaling up a print run to lower the price point, and that is really easy to do with a traditionally manufactured book for sure... You run the risk of printing more copies than you can sell, of course, if the lower price doesn't attract enough customers to buy those additional copies.

    But for books that have so much hand labor, customized features, exotic material, etc... scaling up doesn't put nearly the dent in the retail price as you would expect. ("Wow, that hand-woven cloth from India is $50,000 for the amount I need, but if I double the size of the order that'll be...$98,000." or "These hand-made cases cost $915 each for 30, but if have 60 made it'll be $905 each...")

    Just my two cents from having run specs for 300+ books ranging from trade editions to $3000 Lettered Editions over the past 16 years.

    Best,
    Brian
    Yea that's pretty much where I was coming from as well. Sure you get bulk discounts on materials, but they tend to not make much of a dent. In hand made stuff it's all labor costs really and there's no bulk discounts on labor. This is coming not from the perspective Brian has knowing the actual costs of things, but from the perspective of someone who makes stuff by hand and sells them.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    I disagree with you on one point--all his books are for me!
    Don't get me wrong I would love to own everyone of them. The not for me in this case is strictly due to "price point" not matching my "must have" threshold.

  3. #63
    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhatchett View Post
    This is all I have to say about that...“To be a book-collector is to combine the worst characteristics of a dope fiend with those of a miser.”
    Robertson Davies. LOL!!
    That's too perfect. We want it all. We want it now. We want it limited. We want it at the price we say.

  4. #64
    Senior Member 1st Electroshock Session bsaenz24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    That's too perfect. We want it all. We want it now. We want it limited. We want it at the price we say.
    You forgot “in stock now!!” Jeez Jeff! Oops nevermind.
    Last edited by bsaenz24; 01-17-2019 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication TacomaDiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian861 View Post
    Although you don't need the book at this price to enjoy it, Jason, you should pick up a beat up copy of the book at some point. It's a great read and probably one, if not the best, adaptation of a novel to screen.
    You're not the boss of me Brian!

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaDiver View Post
    You're not the boss of me Brian!
    So you haven't been told yet.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication TacomaDiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    So you haven't been told yet.
    I'm sure the notice is in the mail.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Receiving Daily Medication
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    I'd compare Paul's books more to Charnel House than any other small press I know of. Charnel House publishes a lot of Dean Koontz and Tim Powers books, but the only book I've ever bought from them was the numbered edition of this one, which, if I remember correctly, was still around $600 even with a discount back in 2011 - https://charnelhouse.com/product/the...arlan-ellison/

  9. #69
    Senior Member Hearing Voices Ben Staad's Avatar
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    Agreed. I think of Charnel House in regards to market comparison as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1442397 View Post
    I'd compare Paul's books more to Charnel House than any other small press I know of. Charnel House publishes a lot of Dean Koontz and Tim Powers books, but the only book I've ever bought from them was the numbered edition of this one, which, if I remember correctly, was still around $600 even with a discount back in 2011 - https://charnelhouse.com/product/the...arlan-ellison/

  10. #70
    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed St. Troy's Avatar
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    BJF, thanks for the insight. Reading the descriptions of the 2 Suntup Rosemary's Baby editions, it would be tough to see how they could be priced much lower.

    I'm curious about the decision not to do 3rd tier/"Artist Gift Editions" for The Haunting Of Hill House and Rosemary's Baby; I wonder if the need to sell a higher quantity (which was 1,000 for Horns and 1,250 for Misery) tested confidence in the ability of THOHH and RB (although historically relevant and respected enough to easily move limited quantities of lettered and numbered editions, especially with Suntup's production values) to find a market for that higher quantity.

    Certainly, none of which is to criticize Suntup; I'm merely curious (and mostly curious about AGEs because my budget is on the low side ).
    Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

  11. #71
    Senior Member 1st Electroshock Session
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    Looks like I missed the bulk of this conversation, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.

    I like what Suntup is doing. I like that there is a publisher out there producing these kind of high-end books with unique designs that make them more a centerpiece for display than just a book on a shelf. I hope that they continue to be very successful, because anything that gets people excited about books is a good thing. Unfortunately, these books just aren't for me or meant for someone in my budget range.

    As for the price point, this is all relative. The price point is seen as a "too much" from my perspective because:

    1. My income dictates that this is beyond what is reasonable to spend on a book. If I made more money, then this might not be the case. This is a matter of perspective though, because to the "normal" book buyer, us here on this forum that regularly spend $40 to $100+ on a single book is seen as ridiculous. When I discuss my book collecting and share that a particular book cost $200, most people's heads explode at the thought.

    2. My desire for this particular book is not high enough to warrant that amount of money. I have no personal connection or history to the book, so the rationalization to spend that much is diminished. If this was Straub's Ghost Story, I wouldn't think twice about snatching up a limited for $695 (I'd have to do some VERY serious thinking about dropping $4k on a lettered, though). But I'm willing to spend that due to the personal significance that the book has to me. Other collectors might look at me crossed-eyed.

    Due I wish that Suntup could do Artist Editions for all books? Yeah, I'd love to support them. Do I want them to change their business model to make their product price more palatable to me? Nah, this is passion at work here, they should do as they see fit.


    I'm just glad that we have company's like Suntup, Centipede, Thunderstorm, Earthling, Subterranean, Charnel House, SST, PS, and, of course, Cemetery Dance that are putting out these books, because the Lord knows that they aren't doing it for the money. And, in my humble opinion, without them, the world--or at least MY world--would be a little less bright.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Troy View Post
    BJF, thanks for the insight. Reading the descriptions of the 2 Suntup Rosemary's Baby editions, it would be tough to see how they could be priced much lower.

    I'm curious about the decision not to do 3rd tier/"Artist Gift Editions" for The Haunting Of Hill House and Rosemary's Baby; I wonder if the need to sell a higher quantity (which was 1,000 for Horns and 1,250 for Misery) tested confidence in the ability of THOHH and RB (although historically relevant and respected enough to easily move limited quantities of lettered and numbered editions, especially with Suntup's production values) to find a market for that higher quantity.

    Certainly, none of which is to criticize Suntup; I'm merely curious (and mostly curious about AGEs because my budget is on the low side ).
    The decision to not do Artist's Editions is probably all contractual. Even if Suntup wanted to, they might not have been allowed to.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Lobotomized Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Troy View Post
    BJF, thanks for the insight. Reading the descriptions of the 2 Suntup Rosemary's Baby editions, it would be tough to see how they could be priced much lower.

    I'm curious about the decision not to do 3rd tier/"Artist Gift Editions" for The Haunting Of Hill House and Rosemary's Baby; I wonder if the need to sell a higher quantity (which was 1,000 for Horns and 1,250 for Misery) tested confidence in the ability of THOHH and RB (although historically relevant and respected enough to easily move limited quantities of lettered and numbered editions, especially with Suntup's production values) to find a market for that higher quantity.

    Certainly, none of which is to criticize Suntup; I'm merely curious (and mostly curious about AGEs because my budget is on the low side ).
    Paul commented at one point that he was contractually not permitted to release an artist gift edition of Hill House. I assume, but do not know, that the same holds true with Rosemary's Baby.

  14. #74
    Administrator Totally Insane Dan Hocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
    The decision to not do Artist's Editions is probably all contractual. Even if Suntup wanted to, they might not have been allowed to.
    Maybe, my guess is probably more that he just didn't think there'd be enough interest to move 1,000 copies. It really takes a perfect storm of author, price, and title to move that many copies quickly, for instance he still has copies of Horns available.
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  15. #75
    Senior Member Involuntarily Committed St. Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
    I like what Suntup is doing. I like that there is a publisher out there producing these kind of high-end books with unique designs that make them more a centerpiece for display than just a book on a shelf. I hope that they continue to be very successful, because anything that gets people excited about books is a good thing.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
    ...to the "normal" book buyer, us here on this forum that regularly spend $40 to $100+ on a single book is seen as ridiculous.
    Normal people are funny, no? The number of times my wife has said "but you already own that book, don't you?" and I've had to respond along the lines of, "yes, but not with these extra features, kickass paper, binding, illustrations..."

    She once referred to my Alan Lee-illustrated editions of Lord Of The Rings as..."picture books," like they were the freakin' Berenstain Bears or something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
    I'm just glad that we have company's like Suntup, Centipede, Thunderstorm, Earthling, Subterranean, Charnel House, SST, PS, and, of course, Cemetery Dance that are putting out these books, because the Lord knows that they aren't doing it for the money. And, in my humble opinion, without them, the world--or at least MY world--would be a little less bright.
    Hell yeah.
    Always looking to rent out a hidden floor above or below an old library, preferably brick or stone with hidden passageways. No pets (except cats).

  16. #76
    Senior Member 1st Rubber Room Confinement jeffingoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
    Looks like I missed the bulk of this conversation, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.

    I like what Suntup is doing. I like that there is a publisher out there producing these kind of high-end books with unique designs that make them more a centerpiece for display than just a book on a shelf. I hope that they continue to be very successful, because anything that gets people excited about books is a good thing. Unfortunately, these books just aren't for me or meant for someone in my budget range.

    As for the price point, this is all relative. The price point is seen as a "too much" from my perspective because:

    1. My income dictates that this is beyond what is reasonable to spend on a book. If I made more money, then this might not be the case. This is a matter of perspective though, because to the "normal" book buyer, us here on this forum that regularly spend $40 to $100+ on a single book is seen as ridiculous. When I discuss my book collecting and share that a particular book cost $200, most people's heads explode at the thought.

    2. My desire for this particular book is not high enough to warrant that amount of money. I have no personal connection or history to the book, so the rationalization to spend that much is diminished. If this was Straub's Ghost Story, I wouldn't think twice about snatching up a limited for $695 (I'd have to do some VERY serious thinking about dropping $4k on a lettered, though). But I'm willing to spend that due to the personal significance that the book has to me. Other collectors might look at me crossed-eyed.

    Due I wish that Suntup could do Artist Editions for all books? Yeah, I'd love to support them. Do I want them to change their business model to make their product price more palatable to me? Nah, this is passion at work here, they should do as they see fit.


    I'm just glad that we have company's like Suntup, Centipede, Thunderstorm, Earthling, Subterranean, Charnel House, SST, PS, and, of course, Cemetery Dance that are putting out these books, because the Lord knows that they aren't doing it for the money. And, in my humble opinion, without them, the world--or at least MY world--would be a little less bright.
    All of this. Perfectly stated.

  17. #77
    Senior Member 1st Electroshock Session Brian861's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Troy View Post
    +1



    Normal people are funny, no? The number of times my wife has said "but you already own that book, don't you?" and I've had to respond along the lines of, "yes, but not with these extra features, kickass paper, binding, illustrations..."

    She once referred to my Alan Lee-illustrated editions of Lord Of The Rings as..."picture books," like they were the freakin' Berenstain Bears or something.




    Hell yeah.
    That Berenstain Bears comment got me rolling. LMFAO!

  18. #78
    Senior Member 1st Electroshock Session Brian861's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    This isn't directed at anyone, but just a reminder to keep things respectful, please.
    Best,
    Brian
    After giving it some thought, I felt this was directed at me. Seeing how it appeared directly after my comment. Oh well, blanket statements are the SOP for most companies. Including my current employer.

  19. #79
    Senior Member 1st Electroshock Session Brian861's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaDiver View Post
    You're not the boss of me Brian!
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    So you haven't been told yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaDiver View Post
    I'm sure the notice is in the mail.
    What he said

  20. #80
    Senior Member Jeez! Don't you have anything better to do with your time? bookworm 1's Avatar
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    I would have gone for a reasonably priced gift edition of one was available. I wonder if with a book like this if Paul could do a gift edition if he just figured out the cost and had a preorder window for a gift edition and that was the number of gift edition books he published. Then he doesn't have to do 500 or more copies of only 200 people want one.

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