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    #16
    Originally posted by Draven Ames View Post
    Very true to life story. If you are doing it for the money, you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
    Oh, I'm in it for the money LOL_but I don't have to be a bestseller to get by. My beloved just finished his degree and when he gets a better job, interview tomorrow, I won't need to make much to stay at home and write. I only bartend 3 nights a week as it is.
    http://www.cwlasart.com/

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      #17
      well, luckily i am a trophy husband. My wife works damn hard; I work but not as hard so have some extra time. i've never expected it to be a career; more of an accomplishment. thanks for all the answers; you're all very honest!
      It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

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        #18
        Sure, maybe we will meet up in OC sometime...only..you're buying the McD's and I expect the supersize!!!
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          #19
          Oh and McD's is code for dirty martini's, hold the vermouth. :P
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            #20
            Well I will make the martini's I guess-dirty or otherwise! I am the professional...bartender that is!
            http://www.cwlasart.com/

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              #21
              [Find's a spot at Caren's bar] Twelve please!
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                #22
                Originally posted by C.W. LaSart View Post
                Well I will make the martini's I guess-dirty or otherwise! I am the professional...bartender that is!
                I used to be but now just an afficionado - my specialty is the margarita, fresh squeezed and no triple sec!
                It ain't braggin' if you can do it. . .

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by RJHubbard53 View Post
                  I used to be but now just an afficionado - my specialty is the margarita, fresh squeezed and no triple sec!
                  Then you can make those!
                  http://www.cwlasart.com/

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                    #24
                    Ozmosis7, why do you say that self-publishing will taint you with agents and traditional markets? I would think that they would like to see a following for a book and see the possibilities that nationwide/worldwide marketing could do?

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Pooks View Post
                      Ozmosis7, why do you say that self-publishing will taint you with agents and traditional markets? I would think that they would like to see a following for a book and see the possibilities that nationwide/worldwide marketing could do?
                      Well, it's one thing if you have a following like Amanda Hocking. But, success like that self-pubbing is as rare as a traditional success. When you go the self-pubbing route, you have established you are fine with working on your own, and thus I would imagine taking money out of agent's hands, as well as a publisher. However, there's several layers, like an onion, in between those two extremes. I have just caught wind that there are several agents/publishers that won't bother looking at you once you self-pub. This is why when you go to sell your book, other authors ask you that question. If you've already self-pubbed, I don't think it marks you so much, as if you have a track record. There is a lot of talk out there, and I am not sure anyone knows the modern rules of the game, but that's what I have heard from some pretty straight up people. All that being said, if you can reach Hocking's success, go all out for it. Also, if you feel the traditional route will never find you well, you might decide to try to take that route. After all, very few successful ends take the same roads.
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                        #26
                        Thinking on this more, rather than post links I've found, I'll just state what it was. There was an article about Hocking, discussing how she made so much she was untouchable by publishers. Recently, she did just sign with a publisher.

                        Jeff Strand used to self-pub, and was picked up for a publishing deal. One of the guys he co-authored a self-pubbed book with is still doing so successfully, claiming he will make over $500k this year. Whether or not some of his success comes from having co-authored a book with a Stoker award winner is up in the air.

                        Many others who have been kind enough to share their earnings from self-pubbing, are reporting 20 or copies sold per a month of their books. That isn't quite as successful. A lot of that could be due to marketing techniques, as the one author above that is doing well had a strategy he lived by. I have seen another self-pubbed author use the same marketing techniques and be successful as well. So there is something to that.

                        So a very successful author might do fine, and get a traditional contract. I've just been told by a lot of authors with bigger names that is a bad idea to go that route. They claim that there are several publishers/agents who won't even look at you once you self-pub. And again, everything I put here is from articles, research, and word of mouth, so its fallible to a degree. But as much as there are some that won't look at you, I am sure there are plenty that will if you are successful. And that last part has been proven.

                        Hope that clears up some and helps. Good luck.
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                          #27
                          Originally posted by ozmosis7 View Post
                          Jeff Strand used to self-pub, and was picked up for a publishing deal. One of the guys he co-authored a self-pubbed book with is still doing so successfully, claiming he will make over $500k this year. Whether or not some of his success comes from having co-authored a book with a Stoker award winner is up in the air.
                          The guy who collaborated with Jeff was probably J. A. Konrath. He already had a pretty good following before he went the self-publishing route. Sure, he's a big proponent but is he a model example of the success an unknown author can achieveónot at all.

                          I donít know about agents or publishers dismissing authors whoíve already self-published. Seems a tad bit extreme. Most the agents and publishers that Iíve spoken with would love to represent or publish someone who comes with a successful selling record. People hate to take risks.

                          My friend John Rector actually published his first novel through Amazon as an E-book just as an experiment. He got tired of the novel getting rejected. Turns out it was a bit of a success. He then got a publishing deal with Tor for his next book. Now heís done a major deal with Amazonís publishing house. Pretty awesome for him. He still recommends going the traditional route. Thereís nothing like having your work vetted by a professional publishing house to validate you as an author.

                          MLD

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                            #28
                            Wow, that's awesome. I think it depends on who you ask or what you read, as to what you hear. Like I said, I think this was once the case, and in the modern day, no one really knows for sure. Seeing someone get a deal that way first hand though, is great. Tor is certainly a pretty big name too, so it's good to see, but they also aren't all thats out there. My statement just said some. So the idea is that you would be limiting your audience. Could this all be some old hoopla, that has been carried over into an age where it isn't really true? Who knows, but there is also a reason why you see so many authors publishing their books with small presses, rather than going the self-pubbing route.

                            I believe you are correct about the name of the guy I was talking about too. I wasn't saying he was a model, so much as his marketing strategy was if you are going that route. I doubt any of us would shake our heads at making $500k a year. So, if you are going that route, it's worth reading his blog, because he talks about what he has done. I would read others too.

                            This is also what I meant by the no two roads to the same end thing. Those words come from an article where the author proposes you just do what you do, because you have as good of a shot making it regardless of which path you take. I will say that I have come across more of the 20 per a month types, than the other though--so it is just as difficult a road. I think some of that is due to not having an editor--maybe.

                            From everything I have heard and seen though, I would exhaust all of your avenues through the traditional route first. Give it a real god shot, and try to get better as a writer. If nothing else, you prepare yourself better for self-pubbing. But I guess it also depends what you want to get out of your writing career. If you don't care about such things, than why bother worrying about it? Heck, if I was a rich man I'd have all the CD books and be throwing my stuff up on Amazon for $.99--maybe.
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                              #29
                              Also, that many roads concept can go back to one great quote that should inspire...

                              I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ Thomas Edison

                              Keep on writing.
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                                #30
                                Originally posted by mlouisdixon View Post
                                My friend John Rector actually published his first novel through Amazon as an E-book just as an experiment. He got tired of the novel getting rejected. Turns out it was a bit of a success. He then got a publishing deal with Tor for his next book. Now he’s done a major deal with Amazon’s publishing house. Pretty awesome for him. He still recommends going the traditional route. There’s nothing like having your work vetted by a professional publishing house to validate you as an author.

                                MLD
                                That's great to hear. I think there is a tendency, as mentioned, to steer clear of self-publishing because there is the assumption those that do it have failed getting a publishing deal, which then has people questioning if it was any good or not. Axel Taiari self published his vampire novella, A Light To Starve By, via Amazon and it's been very well received. We've discussed this subject in depth and there is a real divide. i think most people will go down the traditional route of publisher first, but once they've landed on their arse for the 1000th time, the temptation is there. Regardless of what we think of SP, it still gets your words out to the masses. Too, there is already a shift with certain publishing houses only releasing electronic versions. I think this a happy medium. If you can't get into print, but don't want to self publish, then look for publishing houses that do electronic editions only. With kindle taking off big time and outselling hardbacks on Amazon, people will move more toward electronic versions. Myself, I sometimes buy a Kindle version of a book first, and if i like it, buy a first edition hardback from Abebooks.

                                Good luck, whatever route you take.

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