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    Originally posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think that is the first time I have noted this however maybe that is more common but not as obviously stated. It kind of makes me want to pull some books down and look.
    I checked about 12 books, only 2 of which did not say where they were printed. The rest were printed in the U.S. I would have rather paid a bit more and had it manufactured in the U.S., rather than made in China, which to me does not justify the price.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Jarhead View Post
      I checked about 12 books, only 2 of which did not say where they were printed. The rest were printed in the U.S. I would have rather paid a bit more and had it manufactured in the U.S., rather than made in China, which to me does not justify the price.
      Is printing really that much cheaper in China? I suppose it is, but it honestly surprises me.

      I don't know nearly enough about the publishing industry, but I feel as most printing (aside from letterpressing) would be partially automated. I mean, I know that there is still labor involved with getting the printer itself running and all, but I wouldn't think that there would be significant savings to be had by moving said labor overseas.

      Just seems weird to me, is all...

      Comment


        I have to admit that the premium ethos of Suntup that Paul has put forward, often including handcrafted artisan processes, seems inherently in contrast to having the printing/production done in China, a nation known for corner- and cost-cutting measures. I’m not suggesting the final product isn’t impressive — I just featured the beautiful AGE of IAL in my Showcase tweet today — but it does just seem odd and on the surface of it contrary to the Suntup brand.

        Reminds me a bit of how both Triumph Motorcycles and Harley-Davidson — the former identified inexorably with England and the latter with the America heartland — have both shifted a good deal of their assembly to India. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a lesser product or that quality control has suffered, but it does tend to undermine to some degree the brand they’ve both built on a different ethos.

        That said, whatever it takes for a small publisher to survive in these difficult times seems reasonable to me.
        Twitter: https://twitter.com/ron_clinton

        Comment


          Originally posted by RonClinton View Post
          I have to admit that the premium ethos of Suntup that Paul has put forward, often including handcrafted artisan processes, seems inherently in contrast to having the printing/production done in China, a nation known for corner- and cost-cutting measures. I’m not suggesting the final product isn’t impressive — I just featured the beautiful AGE of IAL in my Showcase tweet today — but it does just seem odd and on the surface of it contrary to the Suntup brand.

          Reminds me a bit of how both Triumph Motorcycles and Harley-Davidson — the former identified inexorably with England and the latter with the America heartland — have both shifted a good deal of their assembly to India. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a lesser product or that quality control has suffered, but it does tend to undermine to some degree the brand they’ve both built on a different ethos.

          That said, whatever it takes for a small publisher to survive in these difficult times seems reasonable to me.
          I am pretty sure Subterranean prints books overseas and has for sometime. They do not indicate on their books where they are printed but have mentioned in the past delays in shipping were due delays in getting the books stateside. I believe printing the books in the US will often lead to delays as there are a limited numbers of craft printers and that just leads to a whole other round of complaints. I first noticed that Suntup stated 'printed in China' in the Artist Gift Edition of Horns. Rather that actually being upset or surprised I was actually pleased that they acknowledged that. With a Suntup book I know I can look and see the country it was printed in. I have not idea what the deciding factors are since not all of his Artist Gift Editions are printed in China. I believe Rosemary's Baby was printed in the US. The only reason I know that Subterranean prints overseas is because they mentioned it. I have several Subterranean books and just assume they all were printed in China as it is not stated that is wasn't. I also assume all my Cemetery Dance books were printed in the US. For whatever reason they only put 'Manufactured in the United States' on some of there books but I know that they try to work with local companies when they can. Does it bother me when my book is made in China? No. Does it please me when my book is made in the US? Yes. I am only guessing here but I suspect if Suntup converted to only US printers people would soon be complaining about delayed books. I am someone who would accept that delay without complaint as it allows me to receive a product I want made in a way I want. Unfortunately I believe I am in a significant minority here.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Martin View Post
            I am pretty sure Subterranean prints books overseas and has for sometime. They do not indicate on their books where they are printed but have mentioned in the past delays in shipping were due delays in getting the books stateside. I believe printing the books in the US will often lead to delays as there are a limited numbers of craft printers and that just leads to a whole other round of complaints. I first noticed that Suntup stated 'printed in China' in the Artist Gift Edition of Horns. Rather that actually being upset or surprised I was actually pleased that they acknowledged that. With a Suntup book I know I can look and see the country it was printed in. I have not idea what the deciding factors are since not all of his Artist Gift Editions are printed in China. I believe Rosemary's Baby was printed in the US. The only reason I know that Subterranean prints overseas is because they mentioned it. I have several Subterranean books and just assume they all were printed in China as it is not stated that is wasn't. I also assume all my Cemetery Dance books were printed in the US. For whatever reason they only put 'Manufactured in the United States' on some of there books but I know that they try to work with local companies when they can. Does it bother me when my book is made in China? No. Does it please me when my book is made in the US? Yes. I am only guessing here but I suspect if Suntup converted to only US printers people would soon be complaining about delayed books. I am someone who would accept that delay without complaint as it allows me to receive a product I want made in a way I want. Unfortunately I believe I am in a significant minority here.
            I agree with 99% of what you said, Martin. Especially this part: "Does it bother me when my book is made in China? No. Does it please me when my book is made in the US? Yes."

            Also this: "I first noticed that Suntup stated 'printed in China' in the Artist Gift Edition of Horns. Rather that actually being upset or surprised I was actually pleased that they acknowledged that. With a Suntup book I know I can look and see the country it was printed in."

            The part I take a different position on is whether or not I'd wait to have the book printed here. No, I'd rather he printed the book as quickly as possible (without sacrificing quality). If that means looking for overseas support then I'm good.

            I trust that no matter what, Paul will oversee quality and make sure it all falls in line with his expectations.

            I do wonder if they are also bound in China. I assumed so but it only indicates Printed in China.

            No matter. I love these books and both Horns and I Am Legend are wonderfully made.

            Comment


              Originally posted by jeffingoff View Post
              I agree with 99% of what you said, Martin. Especially this part: "Does it bother me when my book is made in China? No. Does it please me when my book is made in the US? Yes."

              Also this: "I first noticed that Suntup stated 'printed in China' in the Artist Gift Edition of Horns. Rather that actually being upset or surprised I was actually pleased that they acknowledged that. With a Suntup book I know I can look and see the country it was printed in."

              The part I take a different position on is whether or not I'd wait to have the book printed here. No, I'd rather he printed the book as quickly as possible (without sacrificing quality). If that means looking for overseas support then I'm good.

              I trust that no matter what, Paul will oversee quality and make sure it all falls in line with his expectations.

              I do wonder if they are also bound in China. I assumed so but it only indicates Printed in China.

              No matter. I love these books and both Horns and I Am Legend are wonderfully made.
              I know that I am in the minority in my view that waiting to receive the book the publisher envisions is not an issue.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Martin View Post
                I am pretty sure Subterranean prints books overseas and has for sometime. They do not indicate on their books where they are printed but have mentioned in the past delays in shipping were due delays in getting the books stateside. I believe printing the books in the US will often lead to delays as there are a limited numbers of craft printers and that just leads to a whole other round of complaints. I first noticed that Suntup stated 'printed in China' in the Artist Gift Edition of Horns. Rather that actually being upset or surprised I was actually pleased that they acknowledged that. With a Suntup book I know I can look and see the country it was printed in. I have not idea what the deciding factors are since not all of his Artist Gift Editions are printed in China. I believe Rosemary's Baby was printed in the US. The only reason I know that Subterranean prints overseas is because they mentioned it. I have several Subterranean books and just assume they all were printed in China as it is not stated that is wasn't. I also assume all my Cemetery Dance books were printed in the US. For whatever reason they only put 'Manufactured in the United States' on some of there books but I know that they try to work with local companies when they can. Does it bother me when my book is made in China? No. Does it please me when my book is made in the US? Yes. I am only guessing here but I suspect if Suntup converted to only US printers people would soon be complaining about delayed books. I am someone who would accept that delay without complaint as it allows me to receive a product I want made in a way I want. Unfortunately I believe I am in a significant minority here.
                Like Jeffingoff, I also agree with 99% of what you wrote, but for a different reason. I am pleased when my books is made in the US, but I am displeased when the book is made in China. I would rather wait, rather than have the work outsourced. Like you, I am glad Suntup stated "printed in China", however, I wish it was included the product page so that I could have made an informed buying decision.

                If it was done to save a delay, take the delay. I've only been collecting for a short time, but I have a lot of orders tied up because of delays. I will get them eventually.

                If it was done to slightly increase profit/decrease price, then I don't agree with that. I would rather pay more for made in the US, and considering how quickly these sell out I don't think a higher price would be an issue, so that makes me think it was done for higher profit.

                I am very new to collecting, having only recently gotten a job (now furloughed due to covid) that has allowed me to buy some books I have ogled for years. I try to buy 'made in the US' when I can. Jeans (Dearborn Denim made in Chicago), Cutlery (liberty tabletop made in US), T-shirts (various online shops) etc... However, I never thought I would buy a book made in China, because as I stated in a previous post, I don't think I own any other books made outside of the US. So to open a book that I thought I paid good money for and see it was made in China, it was a huge surprise.

                I often ask online retailers where their products are made so I can make an informed choice. I am dismayed that I now have to add booksellers to that list.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Jarhead View Post
                  Like Jeffingoff, I also agree with 99% of what you wrote, but for a different reason. I am pleased when my books is made in the US, but I am displeased when the book is made in China. I would rather wait, rather than have the work outsourced. Like you, I am glad Suntup stated "printed in China", however, I wish it was included the product page so that I could have made an informed buying decision.

                  If it was done to save a delay, take the delay. I've only been collecting for a short time, but I have a lot of orders tied up because of delays. I will get them eventually.

                  If it was done to slightly increase profit/decrease price, then I don't agree with that. I would rather pay more for made in the US, and considering how quickly these sell out I don't think a higher price would be an issue, so that makes me think it was done for higher profit.

                  I am very new to collecting, having only recently gotten a job (now furloughed due to covid) that has allowed me to buy some books I have ogled for years. I try to buy 'made in the US' when I can. Jeans (Dearborn Denim made in Chicago), Cutlery (liberty tabletop made in US), T-shirts (various online shops) etc... However, I never thought I would buy a book made in China, because as I stated in a previous post, I don't think I own any other books made outside of the US. So to open a book that I thought I paid good money for and see it was made in China, it was a huge surprise.

                  I often ask online retailers where their products are made so I can make an informed choice. I am dismayed that I now have to add booksellers to that list.
                  I think you are going to find that a lot more books than you realize are being printed overseas. I do respect your views and wish you luck, maybe if more collectors made this an issue we would see more production return. I do believe that this would result in the price and delays in completion increasing.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by RonClinton View Post
                    Reminds me a bit of how both Triumph Motorcycles and Harley-Davidson — the former identified inexorably with England and the latter with the America heartland — have both shifted a good deal of their assembly to India. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a lesser product or that quality control has suffered, but it does tend to undermine to some degree the brand they’ve both built on a different ethos.
                    I keep meaning to find out if the Harley-Davidson factory down the road from me is actually still in operation, or is more of a "tourist" thing with their factory tour, etc.

                    Brian
                    Brian James Freeman
                    brianfreeman@cemeterydance.com

                    Cemetery Dance Publications: http://www.cemeterydance.com
                    Lonely Road Books: http://www.lonelyroadbooks.com
                    LetterPress Publications: http://www.LetterPressPublications.com
                    My Writing: http://www.BrianJamesFreeman.com

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Martin View Post
                      I also assume all my Cemetery Dance books were printed in the US. For whatever reason they only put 'Manufactured in the United States' on some of there books but I know that they try to work with local companies when they can.
                      Correct! All of our books are printed in the USA. Different book designers we work with have a different "standard" copyright page in their files, and we've never asked them to unify to a specific style, so that's why some include that statement and others don't.

                      Other than a hilarious attempt by a local businessman we know who thought he could get traycases made in China (spoiler alert: he could, but they took multiple tries to get right!), we've never sent any of this kind of work overseas.

                      Brian
                      Brian James Freeman
                      brianfreeman@cemeterydance.com

                      Cemetery Dance Publications: http://www.cemeterydance.com
                      Lonely Road Books: http://www.lonelyroadbooks.com
                      LetterPress Publications: http://www.LetterPressPublications.com
                      My Writing: http://www.BrianJamesFreeman.com

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
                        Correct! All of our books are printed in the USA. Different book designers we work with have a different "standard" copyright page in their files, and we've never asked them to unify to a specific style, so that's why some include that statement and others don't.

                        Other than a hilarious attempt by a local businessman we know who thought he could get traycases made in China (spoiler alert: he could, but they took multiple tries to get right!), we've never sent any of this kind of work overseas.

                        Brian
                        Thanks for the info. I have puzzled over why the copyright page varies from book to book. I have also puzzled over why I notice and give thought to things like that. But I do.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Martin View Post
                          Thanks for the info. I have puzzled over why the copyright page varies from book to book. I have also puzzled over why I notice and give thought to things like that. But I do.
                          I really should try to get those unified. I've thought about it from time to time, and then something else comes up and it doesn't happen...
                          Brian James Freeman
                          brianfreeman@cemeterydance.com

                          Cemetery Dance Publications: http://www.cemeterydance.com
                          Lonely Road Books: http://www.lonelyroadbooks.com
                          LetterPress Publications: http://www.LetterPressPublications.com
                          My Writing: http://www.BrianJamesFreeman.com

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
                            I really should try to get those unified. I've thought about it from time to time, and then something else comes up and it doesn't happen...
                            That would certainly save me some brain cells!

                            Comment


                              I just read the AGE of I Am Legend and the quality is high end--especially considering the cost. The paper is very nice and boards are thick. The binding is solid. So printing in China doesn't translate to poor quality.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by jeffingoff View Post
                                I just read the AGE of I Am Legend and the quality is high end--especially considering the cost. The paper is very nice and boards are thick. The binding is solid. So printing in China doesn't translate to poor quality.
                                What did you think of the story?

                                Comment

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