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ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Had a bummer of a rejection today. It's hard enough to find markets to submit short stories to, but when you get a rejection on a novel it is even harder to find rungs up the ladder that accept submissions without an agent.

peteOcha
06-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Had a bummer of a rejection today. It's hard enough to find markets to submit short stories to, but when you get a rejection on a novel it is even harder to find rungs up the ladder that accept submissions without an agent.

Sorry to hear that. :( Did you at least get any feedback?

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 03:52 PM
Nope. They don't offer it.

peteOcha
06-13-2011, 03:57 PM
That's too bad. I know publishers are getting swamped by submissions but a least a few words explaining the reason for rejection would be nice. Or at least something along the lines of "Good characters, bad dialog. Work on descriptions" or whatever would be nice.

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 04:02 PM
This publisher offered a window of time, and they have readers that go over your proposal even before it gets to them. So it could have even been an issue with my proposal for all I know. They did say up front they wouldn't offer any advice.

Oh well, it is an opportunity of sorts I guess. I can shop it around elsewhere or maybe even to an agent. You never know. Life is short, so no sense dwelling on the bad I guess. This was the first novel I wrote, so it is kind of my baby. And its kind of out there, lots of fun killing, but mostly taking place in the afterlife. I'm sure I'll find a home for it.

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Here is a fun little trailer I made for it sometime back...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2qQqelsX0&feature=player_embedded

peteOcha
06-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Nice trailer! Good luck finding a home for it. Don't give up and I'm sure someone will pick it up, or at least offer you advice that will help you out in improving your novel.

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 04:14 PM
Thanks! Appreciate it. I have a couple interested, but I had higher hopes for this one if you know what I mean. I guess I am a bit attached to it after all the years I spent in its web LOL.

peteOcha
06-13-2011, 04:22 PM
That's quite understandable, I mean after all, it is years of your work, it would be hard not to become attached to it.

frik51
06-13-2011, 04:28 PM
Very nice trailer indeed!
My compliments.

sk

Dan Hocker
06-13-2011, 04:28 PM
I'd like to read an excerpt from it after the contest is over and I'm done reading all the entries. Don't read to much into it though, publishing decisions are Brian and Rich's department, mine department is shipping your books and these forums.

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 04:31 PM
Sure. It would be an honor. And no worries. Just let me know when.

JJ Holden
06-13-2011, 04:31 PM
Ken, I'm so sorry, it's the worst feeling. Do you have plans to write another one?

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Thanks all. Appreciate it. I have actually already started the next one (and another as well...they are Construct and Shadows of the Storm on website LOL). I'm about a 1/4 into Shadows.

This one is based on a house I lived in as a child, which I do believe was fully haunted. But it then goes into a sort of fantasy/horror mixed genre type thing. I just have to finish editing on the two that have already been accepted by PMP before I can get into it.

Nik Houser
06-13-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry man, that's a big bummer. But something will shake out. Just keep building the creds by publishing short stories. They say nothing succeeds like success. Allow me to demonstrate...

I submitted a novelette to a website several years back who sent back a kind rejection saying that while they liked it, it wasn't quite what they were looking for. Later on my story found a home in print. Six months later, I got an email saying the editor who'd initially rejected me wanted it for Year's Best Fantasy and Horror 2007. Now, was the editor right to reject it the first time? Absolutely! It wasn't what they were looking for at the website, but later on, they saw it had been picked up and found that they still liked it, and that it would make a much better fit with the broad spectrum of stories in YBFH. The point is, you never know where the success will come. It's like waiting for lightning to strike. You just have to keep sticking your rod in the air and hope for the best. Heh-heh. Rod in the air. Sorry, couldn't resist. None-the-less, onward and upward, Sir!

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Great attitude Nik. I like that story a lot.

Nik Houser
06-13-2011, 06:26 PM
Thanks, man. Publishing is weird. I should also mention that I parted ways with my first agent, who repped a novel of mine that was serious "literature" when I decided to focus on genre fiction. The first story I wrote, which I wrote just for me after a long struggle of trying to please the former agent, was the one that got picked up for YBFH.

Craig Wallwork
06-13-2011, 08:09 PM
Ken, cool trailer. Enjoyed it. Sorry to hear about the rejection, though. I've spoken in great depth about rejections in other writer forums, and there's no real way of dealing with them. Some days it is easy, and some days they hit you so hard it's hard to get back on your feet again. But we do, don't we? those that are here, and those that I know, are still standing because we believe in our work. Keep positive, ken. if the book is as powerful as the trailer, then I'm sure it won't be long before it's picked up. Good luck.

ozmosis7
06-13-2011, 08:16 PM
Thanks, Craig! I'm very hopeful for it, so we shall see.

RichardThomas
06-14-2011, 04:02 AM
I've had 43 rejections so far this year. 11 acceptances. That doesn't even include the agents or presses that I've shown Disintegration, my 2nd book, a neo-noir thriller. It's brutal out here, for sure.

Draven Ames
06-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Here is a fun little trailer I made for it sometime back...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2qQqelsX0&feature=player_embedded

You did really good with your trailer. I need to learn how to make those. Sounds like so much fun.

ozmosis7
06-14-2011, 01:22 PM
I've had 43 rejections so far this year. 11 acceptances. That doesn't even include the agents or presses that I've shown Disintegration, my 2nd book, a neo-noir thriller. It's brutal out here, for sure.

That is an incredible percentage.

ozmosis7
06-14-2011, 01:23 PM
You did really good with your trailer. I need to learn how to make those. Sounds like so much fun.

Thanks! I have 20 years in the graphics industry to aid me, although a mac makes life very easy.

Draven Ames
06-14-2011, 03:01 PM
No wonder yours turned out so well. Are there free programs to create things like that? If so, which ones?

ozmosis7
06-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Hmm...I think a truncated version comes free with the mac, but ilife is only like $50 I think. They have templates they offer that you can build them from. As I get more into it, I am going to make my own templates though, more for fun than anything I guess. I just need to find the time to work on some music.

Draven Ames
06-14-2011, 03:13 PM
I wish I had fruityloops still. That music program is a lot of fun to create beats on. I could do something good with that. If I get it again, maybe we can trade some stuff.

ozmosis7
06-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Imovies is a strong program, although it crashes some. They now sell it for the iphone/itouch for like $4.99, but I am unsure of how well that works. Garageband comes with ilife, and it has a great new feature I have yet to try out where you can hook up your guitar and use built in effects. Iphoto is also key, but I think Idvd is falling out of the mix a little.

RichardThomas
06-14-2011, 06:36 PM
That is an incredible percentage.

Thanks. Some of those were flash and micro-fiction, and a few approached me to contribute, but so far it's been a pretty good year. I'd feel a lot better if I was getting in CD, and Weird Tales, and Shroud but when those guys pass, all I can do is keep shopping.

C.W. LaSart
06-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Thanks. Some of those were flash and micro-fiction, and a few approached me to contribute, but so far it's been a pretty good year. I'd feel a lot better if I was getting in CD, and Weird Tales, and Shroud but when those guys pass, all I can do is keep shopping.

And keep submitting until they accept!

RichardThomas
06-14-2011, 06:56 PM
And keep submitting until they accept!

For sure CW, for sure. My work floats around a lot, with my neo-noir anywhere from horror to fantasy to SF to crime, so I probably just need to write then a straight horror story.

Draven Ames
06-14-2011, 07:16 PM
So far, knocking on wood, I've been very lucky with submissions.

Draven Ames
06-14-2011, 07:16 PM
And keep submitting until they accept!

Very good advice. I've got a story floating around like that.

Ben Staad
06-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Hooray! I had my first official rejection today. Since it's only the third thing I've ever submitted (including this contest) I'm 0 for 2. I'm actually not complaining and thought it was cool someone in the publishing biz read and replied to my submission.

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 06:20 PM
Hooray! I had my first official rejection today.

Copefiend, do you live in a parallel universe? If so, I would be so happy with my inbox right about now. :) (joking heres hoping your taste of rejection is limited and the scars left by the editors do not leave tissue damage and nightmares)

Nik Houser
06-18-2011, 07:15 PM
My philosophy on rejections is this, and it can be applied to a story or a novel: eventually, if you stick to it long enough, SOMEONE is going to say "yes, let's publish this." If you could look into the future, you could just see exactly how many rejections it'll take to get to that acceptance, be it 5 or 50 or 500. But you can't. So let's call that number "X." This means that every rejection you receive brings you ONE STEP CLOSER (or one rejection closer) to that acceptance! Now, this takes some serious faith in your work, and it doesn't always cheer me up when a rejection feels particularly depressing. But it can come in handy, for what it's worth.

RJHubbard53
06-18-2011, 07:23 PM
. . .this takes some serious faith in your work. . .

this is why I and so many others are so interested in this vote and feedback on our stories. I have no faith in my work. I have no idea if is workable or total dreck.

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 07:23 PM
Nice philosophy, Nik. Just sometimes the distance between each step can seem to stretch for eternity.

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 07:27 PM
this is why I and so many others are so interested in this vote and feedback on our stories. I have no faith in my work. I have no idea if is workable or total dreck.

This is common, RJ. I think my work is terrible some days, and then others I'm really happy with it. But you shouldn't put all your faith in other people's opinions. Reading is very subjective. What one person dislikes, another loves. Knowing that before you dismantle the racking around your heart is the only real way not to get hurt. Self-belief has to be the anchor to all your work. You'll be cool.

RichardThomas
06-18-2011, 07:35 PM
great philosophy, nik - very similar to my own belief system, based on the philosopher Nietzsche who said "What does not kill me makes me stronger" - it's tough to get the rejections, but like sales, it's a numbers game - i mean, think about it, if a publication is a 1% acceptance rate, that means you have to beat out 99 stories out of every 100 - WOW - or say it's a 5% acceptance rate, that means out of every 20 submissions, you much be the best - you just have to put the right story in front of the right editor at the right time

rjhubbard53, i'm the same way - one day i'm a total hack and should quit, the next day i get an acceptance or invite to join an anthology or an award and i think, well, maybe i CAN write

i have a story called "Terrapin Station" that i liked a lot, but my professor at my MFA program told me was not thesis material, it was a vignette, and we should move on, he didn't want to see it again - so i started sending it out, and it got into Pear Noir! a nice little print journal with an acceptance rate of 5% i think - so i was happy - a couple months later they told me that they were nominating it for a Pushcart Prize - so, you never know - if YOU love a story, then run with it - you have to believe in your own work, or nobody else will

RJHubbard53
06-18-2011, 07:40 PM
that's awesome, Richard! Thanks for that info. I know i'm a newb and i like what I write - i just dont know how it translates to others. I'm currently looking for writing groups for some peer review. ANy tips? Has to be online as I don't have time to go to a class or group - my 10 month old son requires too much attention :)

ozmosis7
06-18-2011, 08:37 PM
I agree with all of this, and great advice from you guys. It is sometimes very hard to believe i yourself, but you have to keep trying. There will be times when it feels like the door has just been slammed a dozen times in your face, but you have to keep trying to open it up. Sometimes you will receive a handful of rejections in a single day if you put enough stories out there. You have to find someone that appreciates your style, and then another, and then another, etc. No offense to anyone, but I wouldn't worry about not winning this competition. It's been talked about to death, but if you got some true votes for your story be happy with that. It shows someone has liked your story, and you didn't have to ask them to like it for you. That is an accomplishment in itself. Keep on writing.

RichardThomas
06-18-2011, 08:41 PM
People have mentioned Zoetrope, it's a good place. I'm a workshop moderator at The Cult (chuckpalahniuk.net) and for $40/year they have a nice group too. I forget any others that were mentioned. The best way to see how it translates to others is to start shopping stories. When an editor accepts it, you know you're doing well. Feel free to aim a little lower when you're first getting started. Just get some work out there to some fun, cool websites. You can certainly aim for the best if you want, but submitting to CD and F&SF, Clarkesworld, Asimov's, Shroud, Shock Totem, Black Static and then getting nothing but rejections can be a bit hard to take when you're first starting out. But certainly, aim high if you think you have a shot. Nothing wasted but a little bit of time and effort. Good luck!

Rotten Leaves and Dirty Noir are looking for work. I've had flash at both. Or just peep Duotrope.

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 08:53 PM
Don't forget Rotten Leaves, Richard. http://www.rottenleaves.com/ Love the artwork and stories coming out of that place recently.

RichardThomas
06-18-2011, 08:58 PM
Don't forget Rotten Leaves, Richard. http://www.rottenleaves.com/ Love the artwork and stories coming out of that place recently.

I mean Rotten Leaves. DUH. I always say Rotten Tomatoes (a movie review site).

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 09:04 PM
HA! Wait till I tell Nik Korpon and Dwyer! ;)

RichardThomas
06-18-2011, 09:09 PM
they know i'm an idiot already

Ben Staad
06-18-2011, 09:53 PM
Don't forget Rotten Leaves, Richard. http://www.rottenleaves.com/ Love the artwork and stories coming out of that place recently.

FYI...It looks like Rotten Leaves has closed their submissions.

Craig Wallwork
06-18-2011, 10:22 PM
Pretty sure they'll be open, VERY SOON. Keep your peeps peeled.

Nik Houser
06-18-2011, 10:52 PM
Nice philosophy, Nik. Just sometimes the distance between each step can seem to stretch for eternity.

Don't I know it.

Nik Houser
06-18-2011, 10:53 PM
you just have to put the right story in front of the right editor at the right time

I think you just summed up the entire publishing industry.

Nik Houser
06-18-2011, 10:55 PM
this is why I and so many others are so interested in this vote and feedback on our stories. I have no faith in my work. I have no idea if is workable or total dreck.

Definitely going to read yours soon and ping you back with a pm. Tried to do it at work, but couldn't take notes. Sorry for the delay. I know there's no rush, but the story looks cool and I want to read it.

Ben Staad
06-19-2011, 01:36 AM
Copefiend, do you live in a parallel universe?

LOL! No but I do live in Central Florida which does at times seems quite different then the rest of the world.

mercuryval
06-20-2011, 01:47 AM
Had a bummer of a rejection today. It's hard enough to find markets to submit short stories to, but when you get a rejection on a novel it is even harder to find rungs up the ladder that accept submissions without an agent.

Sympathies on your rejection. Publishing is very subjective, as many others have already posted. I just got a rejection on my horror novel the other day. Feels like a punch in the gut. Was magnified by waking up to find my basement flooded due to a broken pipe. They say bad things happen in threes--I'm holding my breath!

Keep trying, and let us know when you get that novel published!

Randy D. Rubin
06-20-2011, 02:17 AM
So sorry to hear about your rejection, Ozmo. That's why I've been so hesitant to send my "babies" out. I have over ninety short stories and three novellas written but I'm just not sure if: 1. They're good enough and 2. What they're classified as other than the broad spectrum Horror field. I don't evem no what a neo-noir story means. I may have a few. I have grouped my stuff into thirteen story tomes (Like C. W. did, awesomely enough, with a central theme.) After being in this forum and reading everyone's posts, I feel that it's time to get my "little darlings" dressed in their Sunday Best and get their hungry asses on the street, as it were. Thanks to you, Ozmo and Richard and Draven and C.W. I now know its time. Also, the six people who really enjoyed my first tale enough to vote for it without me even having to threaten to kill their families, I thank you half dozen, humbly and sincerely.

Again, my friend, so sorry. Your rejection gives me courage to take another step off the ledge.

RichardThomas
06-20-2011, 02:34 AM
keep at it oz - i've gotten maybe 30 rejections on my novel this year from agents, as well as a lot of "no responses" which i'll eventually chalk up as rejections. worse than that though are the agents that you know personally via fellow authors - when they pass, it's tough to take - i even had a guy approach ME (first time for that) who loved my short stories, asked for my novel, and then passed - WTF? that one stung - but i've still got Disintegration out in queries, partials and a few fulls to some agents and presses i really like - plus, don't forget guys, ChiZine opens up July 1st - i love their work, would be thrilled to have my novel there - if you haven't read Paul Tremblay and Craig Davidson, do so - great authors - you all should submit

ozmosis7
06-20-2011, 03:23 AM
Thanks Richard! Appreciate it. I have a good feel about this one, so we'll see. Thanks for the tips too.

ozmosis7
06-20-2011, 03:25 AM
By the way Richard, I grew up in Glen Ellyn. I so miss a good Chicago hotdog. There is a Sonic out here advertising they have them, but last time I heard that this ratty hotdog had onions and meat sauce. What the hell is that? Wish me luck on finding a good hotdog as well out here in the Eat LOL.

RichardThomas
06-20-2011, 04:12 AM
ha...just had Portillo's tonight, good stuff

ozmosis7
06-20-2011, 01:53 PM
ha...just had Portillo's tonight, good stuff

Color me jealous.

Craig Wallwork
06-22-2011, 04:42 PM
Dear Craig Wallwork,

Thank you for sending us "Rice Milk". Unfortunately we will not be able to use this work for Vestal Review. We receive many well-written, compelling, stories, but can only take a very limited number due to constraints of space and style. We wish you the best of luck in placing your story elsewhere.

Thanks again. Best of luck with this.
Sincerely,
Cheryl Chambers
Vestal Review

This is a 500 word story, written first for a Moon Milk competition I know it's easy to say this after it's been rejected, but I knew it wouldn't get published because, and my Write Club colleagues will back this up, I CAN'T WRITE FLASH FICTION!

To those that can, like Ash here, I bow to you. So, it's official, and you're hearing it here first, I won't be attempting Flash Fiction, EVER. :d

ozmosis7
06-22-2011, 04:48 PM
You seemed to do alright in the competition, even though 1500ish words is rather long flash--I still think it falls into that category to some degree.

RichardThomas
06-22-2011, 05:25 PM
that's a great story, craig, don't give up on it yet - and i thought that flash was anything under 1000 words - you can write flash

ozmosis7
06-22-2011, 05:50 PM
and i thought that flash was anything under 1000 words

It is. I'm just saying this wasn't too far off from that count and his story won out of 10 others. So without doubt, you can do it Craig.

peteOcha
06-22-2011, 09:42 PM
Yeah, Craig, don't give up just because of that one rejection. Just like ozmosis said, your story for the competition was close to being flash and you won your group! That must mean something!

Craig Wallwork
06-23-2011, 06:17 AM
Thanks, guys. I think anything under a 1K and I struggle with, which is to say, anything under 1k I will void from now on. Cheers for the support. :)

RichardThomas
06-23-2011, 02:38 PM
please don't, your poetic, layered writing is really perfect for flash, you get a lot on the page in a short period of time, getting flash fiction online where people have short attention spans is a great way to expand your audience - you know i love your work, craig

Craig Wallwork
06-23-2011, 03:12 PM
You'll have me blushing soon, Mr Thomas. :D

blasko66
06-25-2011, 01:40 AM
That's too bad. I know publishers are getting swamped by submissions but a least a few words explaining the reason for rejection would be nice. Or at least something along the lines of "Good characters, bad dialog. Work on descriptions" or whatever would be nice.

One of my very first rejections was one that I wish had been a form letter. I submitted a short to a magazine (which I'm pretty sure is defunct now) and I got a hand-written letter telling me that I was basically a talentless waste of space for bothering them. Then it went on to say that I could do X, Y and Z but none of it would help because I was so horrifically bad at writing.
I figure after that one nothing could ever be as vicious.
And it is really hard finding a place to submit a novel to without an agent. The last thing I submitted a novel to was Leisure's Fresh Blood contest. Anyone else get rejected from that one?

jmcraven
06-25-2011, 02:05 AM
I got a hand-written letter telling me that I was basically a talentless waste of space for bothering them. Then it went on to say that I could do X, Y and Z but none of it would help because I was so horrifically bad at writing.


Wow- I hope you held onto that. That's priceless. Funny how you're still writing and getting published and they are defunct.

ozmosis7
06-25-2011, 02:30 AM
I once got a rejection telling me I should never write again because it was awful and no one would ever want to read my stuff. That isn't the exact wording, but its the gist of it. I have the actual letter somewhere and it was so brutal I nearly hung up my keyboard right then and there. My wife was the one that told me, "Read it again. Then, read it again. Try to learn something from it. Maybe there is a reason she felt that way." God I love my wife!

blasko66
06-25-2011, 04:51 AM
I didn't keep that letter. It was too cruel. Especially for someone with a fragile ego. But I did learn from it in several ways.
1-Don't send out anything before it's really ready.
2-Don't expect kindness from anyone. No one's going to hold your hand.
3-Be nicer to other people. Especially be professional.
In some ways I think the more personal criticisms clouded my ability to judge my own work for years. Professional criticism I can take but when you start slinging around "you're so awful you should never write again" sentences then you've lost me. Tell me why that is instead of making attacks. If you have the time for an attack then you have the time to make me better. If you can't tell me why I'm so terrible at it then you really don't know why yourself.
I had a professor in college who was very belittling of me and one of my closest friends (who was also in this 300-level writing course with me) about the fact that we love to write horror. And now we'll both be published. Sadly, my friend told me that I've spent most of my writing life trying to impress this one person who will never give me approval.
I understand that these magazines and publishers get heaps of submissions and some of them are not good (and others aren't ready) but there's never any reason to make it personal. Just send out a form rejection instead of getting really nasty and down-grading with it. That seems like more work than the submission is worth if it's really bad.
That being said. . . I find a little comfort and dismay that someone else got one of those nasty letters too.

Craig Wallwork
06-25-2011, 08:36 AM
One of my very first rejections was one that I wish had been a form letter. I submitted a short to a magazine (which I'm pretty sure is defunct now) and I got a hand-written letter telling me that I was basically a talentless waste of space for bothering them. Then it went on to say that I could do X, Y and Z but none of it would help because I was so horrifically bad at writing.
I figure after that one nothing could ever be as vicious.

that's terrible. terrible. Stick it on your spike Blasko and show those half-wits. You too, Ken!

ozmosis7
06-25-2011, 01:54 PM
We probably got it from the same editor LOL.

Craig Wallwork
06-25-2011, 08:09 PM
I don't mind feedback, even if it's not the type you want to hear right after a rejection, but there is balance that needs to be met. And, manners to be upheld. It's just plain rude and callous to throw out that kind of feedback. If the story was that bad (not that i'm saying it was guys) then just send the standard rejection letter. Or, if you're going to the trouble of writing a personal feedback, highlight areas of improvement - give the writer something they can work from, not shoot them down.

mlouisdixon
06-25-2011, 09:25 PM
I've read some slush that made me want to SCREAM! (sorry about the outburst. I've been under a bit of stress lately) I have wanted to say something to the person who clearly had no clue on what horror fiction is, but I only sent the standard form rejection because what would be the point? If I feel that the person has absolutely no talent, and probably will never have any, why do I need to point that out? I don't have that kind of time anyway. I usually reply to stories when I see promise. If a story is written very well but clearly not for our magazine, I'll tell them that they are very good but not a good fit and I might even suggest a different market. Hell, I'd love to see them published but I just can't justify it in our magazine. If the story is a great idea but not written very well, I'll explain to them where they are failing--as far as I'm concerned. If it's pretty close to what I want but not there, I'll even ask for a rewrite.

What will usually piss me off, and sometimes scare me, is when it's obvious that the writer believes that horror is all about torture. What can scare me is the thinly veiled torture fantasy that's depicting a revenge against an ex-girlfriend. You wouldn't believe how many of those we see. Please stop torturing and killing off your ex-girlfriends and their new boyfriends and trying to sell it.

Do you really want to sell your fiction? Then think of something original. NOT as easy as it sounds but I think it's paramount. Also, work on your craft. Lots of times I will stop reading a story on the first page because of obvious mistakes--passive voice, changin POV, spelling and grammar fails, and formatting errors. I try to give everything a chance but there is only so far you can go. Very rarely do I find a good story that has numerous grammar and spelling flaws.

Now, the question is, how to be original? I DON'T KNOW. I've done things I thought were very original and gotten slapped with a serious WTF. I guess it's a balance that needs to be worked out.

All I know is that you need to keep trying until you succeed. But ain't it so much fun?

MLD

RichardThomas
06-25-2011, 10:33 PM
yeah, i'd say that MLD about nailed it ^

jmcraven
06-26-2011, 12:39 AM
yeah, i'd say that MLD about nailed it ^

Nailed it like a cheatin' ex-girlfriend on the wrong end of a Bosch power nailer.

Craig Wallwork
06-26-2011, 09:30 AM
I'm reading Jeremy Dyson Never Trust a Rabbit which is turning to out to be a great collection of stories that lean toward orginal horror. Giving me a lot ot think about. He is one of the screenwriters of The League of Gentleman, a very dark television series set in England. He and any Nyman also did a run of stage shows featuring "old school" horror stories, aptly named, Ghost Stories, which proved VERY successful. Here's an interview with the writers who explain more, though, part of the appeal and attractive of the stage shows was that no one could tell you what happened lest it dilutes the impact:

http://www.syfy.co.uk/node/190573

A friend of mine went and he goes on ghost hunts in various parts of England - he jumped out of his skin several times, but it also had a weird spooky feel to it all.

ozmosis7
06-26-2011, 02:06 PM
Nailed it like a cheatin' ex-girlfriend on the wrong end of a Bosch power nailer.

Ha, that's great.

jmcraven
06-26-2011, 09:28 PM
Well, one side "benefit" of email over snail mail is that rejections can arrive on Sundays, too :(

jmcraven
06-26-2011, 09:33 PM
I might add, it's just salt in the wound when the title of your work is spelled incorrectly in a form rejection.

JJ Holden
06-27-2011, 04:58 AM
What will usually piss me off, and sometimes scare me, is when it's obvious that the writer believes that horror is all about torture. What can scare me is the thinly veiled torture fantasy that's depicting a revenge against an ex-girlfriend. You wouldn't believe how many of those we see. Please stop torturing and killing off your ex-girlfriends and their new boyfriends and trying to sell it.

MLD

Thank you so much for saying this.

Nik Houser
06-27-2011, 06:14 AM
I remember a story of mine being accepted to and rejected from the same magazine on the same day. It's a convoluted and silly story I can't get into, but the rejection was accidental, and its origins taught me A LOT about the submission process.

RichardThomas
06-27-2011, 01:15 PM
I remember a story of mine being accepted to and rejected from the same magazine on the same day. It's a convoluted and silly story I can't get into, but the rejection was accidental, and its origins taught me A LOT about the submission process.

I had a similar story happen, Nik. Had a story accepted, so of course I then pulled it from other submissions that I had out. Then a few weeks later I got a rejection from the same place, for the same story. Sent them several emails and went to their website, NEVER HEARD BACK. Needless to say I was pissed off, and have never submitted to them again.

ozmosis7
06-27-2011, 02:52 PM
Ouch! That would suck badly.

Craig Wallwork
06-27-2011, 02:56 PM
I had a similar story happen, Nik. Had a story accepted, so of course I then pulled it from other submissions that I had out. Then a few weeks later I got a rejection from the same place, for the same story. Sent them several emails and went to their website, NEVER HEARD BACK. Needless to say I was pissed off, and have never submitted to them again.

Were the intials to this place RF?

ozmosis7
06-27-2011, 03:46 PM
Were the intials to this place RF?

Hmmmm..the rejection I got that was horrid came from a place with those initials....long ago mind you.

Craig Wallwork
06-27-2011, 03:49 PM
Mmmmmmm... How cryptic can we be....

The last word is also known as a tarboosh! :)

ozmosis7
06-27-2011, 04:01 PM
Ah, maybe both of yours might be the same, but mine is different. Mine was like 3 years ago anyway. And I believe the editor was gone shortly after, so I think there was a breakdown or something, with many people having trouble.

Nik Houser
06-27-2011, 04:14 PM
Were the intials to this place RF?

Nope. Though now I'll have to figure out what those initials mean...

C.W. LaSart
06-27-2011, 10:46 PM
Nope. Though now I'll have to figure out what those initials mean...

RF. RF? Damnit will someone just PM me please?!

ozmosis7
06-28-2011, 12:27 AM
Randall Flagg?

Craig Wallwork
06-28-2011, 06:21 AM
Hahaha Does no one know what a tarboosh is? :)

peteOcha
06-28-2011, 08:35 AM
Hahaha Does no one know what a tarboosh is? :)

If i'm thinking of the right thing its some sort of hat, correct?

Don't know many publishers though, so RF is still a mystery to me...

peteOcha
06-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Wait, wait... RF? I found a place that would fit the tarboosh deal and all, but its AF...

jmcraven
06-28-2011, 05:16 PM
What is "Red Fez", Alex?

Craig Wallwork
06-28-2011, 07:02 PM
It's a online journal. I had a story published there called (aptly) Red Fez and Pancakes. right at the begining of this conversation, I assumed Richard was referencing them, but i didn't want to mention their name in case it was, and because this is a public forum there was the potential people could be lurking and take offence... Richard's not confirmed or denied that was the journal he was talking about, so I figure it's okay to say this at present.

Phew.. it got very complicated for a while there. :)

jmcraven
06-28-2011, 07:09 PM
I was just lobbing a guess in the form of a question, Jeopardy! style. Isn't the guys name Alex Tribek?

Craig Wallwork
06-28-2011, 07:42 PM
Ha... I thought you thought my name was Alex! Totally didn't get the Jeopardy reference because I'm British, and because I'm considerate in manner, I didn't want to correct you by telling you my name is Craig. Hahaha. :)

jmcraven
06-28-2011, 07:59 PM
Ha... I thought you thought my name was Alex! Totally didn't get the Jeopardy reference because I'm British, and because I'm considerate in manner, I didn't want to correct you by telling you my name is Craig. Hahaha. :)

That's too funny- I know exactly what mean because my name is actually Josh, not Jim, and I didn't want to correct you! My user name my first 2 initials (J.M.) and last name Craven. Haha- good stuff.

Craig Wallwork
06-28-2011, 09:00 PM
HAHAHA! I've been calling you Jim all this time! So sorry, Josh. It's the j and the m so close together, and I see the little "tittle" and think its an i! :)

jmcraven
06-28-2011, 09:49 PM
HAHAHA! I've been calling you Jim all this time! So sorry, Josh. It's the j and the m so close together, and I see the little "tittle" and think its an i! :)

No worries. I've been called a lot worse than Jim :)

C.W. LaSart
06-28-2011, 10:13 PM
Haha! We all need nametags! Hello, I'm Caren and I'm addicted to the word "that". I've been in recovery for the last year.....

blasko66
06-29-2011, 02:31 AM
What is "Red Fez", Alex?

Fezs are cool.

Ben Staad
07-03-2011, 03:24 PM
I have a feeling I'm going to become well acquainted with this thread (LOL)! At least the editor who supplied my latest rejection had a positive comment about my submission. He also provided a critique or two on how I could improve my story. This was certainly more feedback then I expected so it wasn't all bad.

ozmosis7
07-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Comments are good...means you are close or they wouldn't bother. I'm afraid most of us will be on this thread often. I've got so many stories out there right now, I'd doubt they all get accepted. I got a rejection last week myself.

lilbirdy
07-03-2011, 04:33 PM
I have a riddle for everyone whose work has been rejected---

Q. What do you call someone who gets a rejection letter?




A. A writer

People who do not write do not get rejection letters. So many people in the world say that they want to be writers but never write a thing. You are out there. You are doing it!

ozmosis7
07-03-2011, 04:49 PM
Agree, lilbirdy.

Ben Staad
07-03-2011, 08:14 PM
Comments are good...means you are close or they wouldn't bother. I'm afraid most of us will be on this thread often. I've got so many stories out there right now, I'd doubt they all get accepted. I got a rejection last week myself.


I have a riddle for everyone whose work has been rejected---

Q. What do you call someone who gets a rejection letter?

A. A writer

People who do not write do not get rejection letters. So many people in the world say that they want to be writers but never write a thing. You are out there. You are doing it!

Both of these are great comments. :) I thought I had submitted something that was very strong. It's a bit discouraging that it was rejected although I know there are other markets out there.

Randy D. Rubin
07-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Well, Brothers and Sisters I took the plunge and sent in one of my stories and in four days I received my very first REJECTION EMAIL. The Senior Editor at Evil Jester Press was very professional and personal with his rejection and it didn't hurt too much, as I had feared. So now that I've got my foot in the proverbial door, I'm going to keep on looking for homes for all my little "Darlings" and now I have something new to collect. Anyone want to join me for a drink? Or thirteen? It's just a flesh wound, really, nothing to worry about.

peteOcha
07-08-2011, 10:10 AM
Well, Brothers and Sisters I took the plunge and sent in one of my stories and in four days I received my very first REJECTION EMAIL. The Senior Editor at Evil Jester Press was very professional and personal with his rejection and it didn't hurt too much, as I had feared. So now that I've got my foot in the proverbial door, I'm going to keep on looking for homes for all my little "Darlings" and now I have something new to collect. Anyone want to join me for a drink? Or thirteen? It's just a flesh wound, really, nothing to worry about.

Congratulations! And no, i'm not trying to be an ass, i really mean it. It takes a lot of courage to finally take the plunge and start sending stuff off... I've got to finally push myself to start sending some things out. I'm just terrified by all the technical stuff: the cover letters, formats, and stuff like that. Googling gives a bazillion different results on format, what should be in a cover letter and the like, got me confused...

Randy D. Rubin
07-08-2011, 02:43 PM
Thanks Pete.

mlouisdixon
07-08-2011, 03:08 PM
Well, I've started sending out rejections for submissions to Dark Recesses' final issue. It really sucks to have to tell people that there story didn't make it, but I always try to provide some feedback to stories that were close or somewhere near. The thing is, DR got all jacked up when I handed it over to someone else and they let the ball drop for over a year. Now I'm sending rejections to stories that have been there for a long time--even a number that were almost a year old. The thing is, some people have been responding with pissed off emails. Look, I know it sucks to have your story wrapped up so long. I've been there too! But please don't take it personal. Please don't be anything but professional. Take the rejection and move on. I've been taking my time to read the whole story and frequently making comments that should be helpful. If you are not happy with that then keep it to yourself. I don't get paid to do this. I do it because I love the genre and want to contribute to it. Anyhow, if you fire back a nasty response to your rejection it isn't going to help your career. We are not that big of a community and word does get around. I'm just saying.

Still, I've also found a few pretty good stories. I'm getting excited as the days go by. Final DR will be awesome!

MLD

ozmosis7
07-08-2011, 03:30 PM
I feel for ya, MLD. Must be difficult. And I also feel for the authors. But you are right. It is always best to take it on the chin, and walk away trying to learn something.

RJHubbard53
07-08-2011, 03:36 PM
i got a rejection for the short mother-in-law related story i wrote for a thread here on the board. They said "we all hate mother in laws and all want to kill them. This is nothing new"

made me chuckle :)

Craig Wallwork
07-08-2011, 04:24 PM
Oh man, that's funny. Not the rejection, just the reply, RJ :)

MLD - least you're finding some wheat among the chaff, that's the main thing. I often thought of setting up a journal/magazine, but the reading process would be the most problematic side to it if all the stories I was reading were not to my taste or just bad stories. I admire any editor willing to give feeback on stories that didn't work for them. If a story didn't grab me in the opening paragraph (or perhaps the first page), I wouldn't read on, and so the feedback would be rendered pointless because all i would say is, "Dear (add name), I got half way through the first page of (add story title) and felt the need to empty my bowels a more pressing issue than reading any further, and at the time, I didn't even need the toilet!"

jmcraven
07-09-2011, 05:06 AM
From my most recent rejection: "This story didn't work for us as there really isn't anything unique here."

mstrom
07-09-2011, 05:21 AM
Here is a fun little trailer I made for it sometime back...

Nice trailer. Great dramatic music. Just wondering how you get a musical soundtrack for a trailer like this without chancing copyright issues?

ozmosis7
07-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Nice trailer. Great dramatic music. Just wondering how you get a musical soundtrack for a trailer like this without chancing copyright issues?

It's built into imovie that came with ilife. They have a bunch of free pre-modeled ones you can use.

mlouisdixon
07-09-2011, 06:42 PM
Nice trailer. Great dramatic music. Just wondering how you get a musical soundtrack for a trailer like this without chancing copyright issues?

Just use Google, you'll be surprised how much public domain music is out there.

MLD

Craig Wallwork
07-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Dear Craig,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to read Stilled Longing. Alas, I will have to pass on this one as it's not quite right for me. I appreciate your interest in Weird Tales and hope that you will keep me in mind for future submissions.

Yours Weirdly,

Ann VanderMeer, Editor-in-Chief

Booooo. Oh well.

ozmosis7
07-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Sorry to hear that, Craig. That's a great market there.

Craig Wallwork
07-10-2011, 06:23 PM
Yeah. i think Nik has been published by them. Very cool press.

Nik Houser
07-10-2011, 10:43 PM
Yeah, they're pretty cool. Took me a heckuva while to get in there. Even the story that got accepted she held onto for more than a year before finally giving it the green light.

In other news, got rejected from Make Magazine. Cool looking lit mag. At least they let me KNOW I didn't make it in this time. Last time I didn't even get an email. :)

ozmosis7
07-11-2011, 10:40 PM
Rejection, but thanks for the links MLD.

mlouisdixon
07-11-2011, 10:51 PM
Rejection, but thanks for the links MLD.

Sorry about that. I don't ever give that level of response. It feels a bit weird and presumptive. Still, I feel we're a bit more in this writing thing together than the average submitter. I hope the links are helpful. They tend to focus on novel length works but the core still applies to short stories.

MLD

ozmosis7
07-11-2011, 10:59 PM
I feel we're a bit more in this writing thing together than the average submitter.

I appreciate that. Thanks.

mercuryval
07-12-2011, 04:35 PM
Rejections are just part of a writer's life. We all just have to keep on keeping on. Looking at my duotrope.com submission tracker, I've had 33 rejections since 2008 (when I started taking writing seriously) and only 7 acceptances. I've received everything from a useless form rejection to the strangest rejection--a sci-fi story in which each character was associated with a color. My protagonist was associated with the color purple, and the editor couldn't fathom why I'd chosen purple for the protagonist. It was such a sticking point that it taught me how subjective writing is. I've learned to take rejections lightly--once in a while I'll get a constructive line or two, but usually I just move on to the next market. Good luck to everyone getting your work placed!

Randy D. Rubin
07-29-2011, 09:33 AM
Hey guys,
I'm now truly amazed at how thick-skinned we have to be in this writing for publication business. I've sent out so many stories thanks to the wonder of Duotrope and the forum and every capillary site therein. Cee Dub, Ozmo, Richard, Craig, after the week of Rejections I've received I have to wonder if maybe I'm on the wrong track. I feel like that scrawny kid in grade school that everyone would pound on just to be cool and keep the bullies in business. He would rub his bruised arm each time a kid would slug him and he would smile like you knew he was on the precipice of tears but he would still smile and maybe giggle and say, "That didn't hurt." AND YOU KNOW DAMN GOOD AND WELL IT HURT LIKE HELL! I feel like that kid today. 7 out of 9 rejections so far, 2 pending. What the fuck!? It's like they ask for a left-handed red cashmere glove with silk lined fingers in the index and ring finger only, cut away thumb, only covering the first two inches of the wrist, with double elastic stitching, so I find a glove pattern, find cashmere, dye it red, purchase chinese silk spinning spiders, craft the piece to exacting specifications cut out the thumb hole, remeasure the wrist elastic for good measure, and finally submit it....

Then I get a rejection letter thanking me and then saying they loved my crimson toe-sock... but its just not the shade of red they had in mind. Is this what you accomplished authors have gone through? Do I keep pluggin' away at it? Is this the NORM?
Help Me Cee Dub! Help Me Richard! OZMO, MLOUIS, Craig, NIK? Do I need to buy a separate bookshelf for rejections? Should I start MY OWN thread Randy's Collection and start taking pictures to send you guys?

mlouisdixon
07-29-2011, 02:40 PM
Hey guys,
Should I start MY OWN thread Randy's Collection and start taking pictures to send you guys?
No need for a new thread. Just post the pictures, thanks.
MLD

Craig Wallwork
07-29-2011, 07:54 PM
Randy - seriously, if I could take your hand and walk you to the Rejection Thread over at Write Club, and you could see how many rejections Richard and I get compared to acceptances, your score wouldn't be so depressing. Honestly, there are times I think I can't write a damn word and I should throw my laptop in the river like a bag of cats and see it drown, screaming and whimpering. Then there are days I think I'll just write for myself and fuck everyone else. Then days come along when I'm on top of the world because in my inbox, there is one person who believes in me, one person who actually likes what I write. Then that one person becomes two people, then three, and after a while you start to understand the bigger picture: there are soooooooooo many writers out there. It's a numbers game, luck, and talent. Sometimes they all come together and it works, but any of those three fail, and you feel like shit.

I wrote something about this a while back on my blog. Maybe I'm wrong, but this was how I felt at the time:


Recently there was a discussion started by Roxane Gay over at PANK magazine’s blog that involved the Rejection of a Rejection. This method, which I assume isn’t a regular practice, involved a writer rejecting PANK’s rejection of their story based on the fact the writer believed they were wrong in their decision and actually didn’t know what they wanted from a story. From the editor’s perspective, it provoked within them a need to discuss why certain stories are not accepted, most of which included many factors: quantity of submissions, personal tastes etc. A very long entry/rant was made on the website’s blog and many writers/readers jumped in to provide support, play Devil’s Advocate, or disagree entirely.

From the writer’s perspective, where I’m best placed, I can empathise with any writer who gets a rejection. And for many years, I felt that every email that arrived in my inbox that began with the words, “Dear Craig. Thanks for allowing (insert name of journal) to read (insert title of story), but unfortunately, we’re going to pass...” was a personal insult to me and my work. But, when you’ve been submitting for the number of years I have, you begin to realise that rejection doesn’t mean the story is bad. I know, it’s a bit of a revelation, but it’s true. I’m not saying this is the case for all stories. I’m sure, like those that audition for these celebrity hosted talented shows on TV who are tone deaf but think they can sing like Aretha Franklin, but sound more like the urethra of Aretha Franklin while she took a piss, there are writers out there that shouldn’t be allowed near a word processer. But by in large, a story being rejected shouldn’t reflect on style or the writer’s talent.

This will be one of the hardest things to get into your head as a writer, and I think those that take rejections too personally, or dwell on the impact of the rejection too much, it can end a career before it has time to blossom. There is no suitable analogy for a rejection that I can think of. However, it’s worth bearing in mind that before you submit a story to any journal/magazine ask yourself this: Would you serve steak to a vegetarian?

By submitting a dark and subversive noir story to a magazine that publishes Fantasy, you shouldn't be surprised when the a rejection arrives a month or two later. If you submit your absurdist steampunk vampire chicken zombie story to somewhere like, GlimmerTrain, then yes, chances are it would really fit with them (knowing my luck the next edition of Glimmertrain will feature a story titled: Foul Fangs). And if we stick with the steak analogy for a moment, even if you find a place that likes meat, everyone has their own particular preference on how they want it cooked. Not everyone likes it rare, but instead prefer well done. Some will settle for a little blood, when others hate the sight of blood. In short, get to know your market, and who you’re pitching too. Read their stories. Look at the author list. Does anyone cook a steak like you? And please, don’t feel if your story has been rejected that you’re a lousy cook. Might be the editor is full and couldn’t force down another mouthful, or perhaps the seasoning was too much. Or, it might just be you served up the wrong dish to the wrong person.

Don't lose hope. There is someone out there waiting for your story. Find them, Randy.

Craig Wallwork
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
Randy - case in point. Just received this:


Dear Craig Wallwork,

Thank you for sending "Railway Architecture." I appreciated the opportunity to read your work, but decided not to select it for the journal.

Thanks for submitting to Storyglossia.

Steven J. McDermott
Editor & Publisher
Storyglossia

RichardThomas
07-29-2011, 08:08 PM
@RANDY - it's like a sales job, where you know that it's just numbers - if you have to knock on 20 doors for 1 sale, then you gotta keep knocking - if the average acceptance rate of a magazine or journal is say 5%, then you not only have to keep submitting, but you need to BEAT OUT the other 19 stories - every editor is different, and it's getting the right person on the right day - i've had stories rejected 10, 20, 30 times and then they land at a great place - my current novel has been pass on by 50+ agents and 6 small presses, but i still believe in it, you have to

here are my stats from Duotrope for this year to give you an idea:

Pending responses for last 12 months: 26
Submissions sent last 12 months: 182
Submissions sent this month: 30
Acceptance ratio for the past 12 months: 10.13 %

2011

Submissions accepted: 13
Submissions rejected: 57
Submissions withdrawn: 32
Submissions pending: 26

You have to do your research, and send out the work. I just started shopping a new story, for example. It's called "Flowers for Jessica" a bit of dark magical realism. Did I send it to three places? NO, I sent it out to TWENTY-FOUR PLACES. Five rejections so far, and it's only been out 12 days.

Keep at it.

Randy D. Rubin
07-29-2011, 10:32 PM
Thank you gentlemen... I needed that. Most sincerely, Randy

RichardThomas
07-30-2011, 11:09 PM
i've gotten lots of rejections that were like "really enjoyed this, great setting, wonderful characters, unique idea" and then they pass - it's all about right place right time, here's my current list of markets that i'm targeting via Duotrope, maybe you can find some new places in there - and i'm also including two links, in case you haven't seen them, one on Simultaneous Submissions and one of my Target Markets:

Simultaneous Submissions: http://whatdoesnotkillme.com/2009/08/31/simultaneous/
My Targets: (not all are horror, obviously) http://whatdoesnotkillme.com/2009/07/28/richards-submissions/

FAVORITE MARKETS: (updated 07.25.11)
3 AM Magazine (accepted)
751 Magazine
AGNI
Alaska Quarterly Review
Albedo ONe
alice blue
Analog
anderbo.com
Annalemma
Another Chicago Magazine
Apex Magazine
Apodis Publishing
Aqueous Books
Arcane Magazine
Artifice Magazine
Atlantic Monthly, The
Atticus Review
Aurealis
Avery Anthology
Barrelhouse
Bat City Review
Battered Suitcase, The
Beat to a Pulp
Beneath Ceaseless Skies
Berkley Fiction Review
Big Lucks
Birkensnake
Black Clock
Black Death Books
Black Heart Magazine
Black Lawrence Press
Black Rainbows Press
Black Static
Black Warrior Review
Blackbird
Bleak House Books
Blink-Ink (twice)
Blue Earth Review
BOMB Magazine
Boulevard
Bourbon Penn
BULL SPEC
Caketrain
Camera Obscura
Cannoli Pie (accepted)
Canteen
Capilano Review, The
Cavalier Literary Couture
Cemetery Dance (accepted)
Cherry Bleeds (accepted) (dead)
Chicago Review
Chimeraworld
Chiron Review
ChiZine (Chiaroscuro) (contest win + 2nd story)
ChiZine Publications
Cimarron Review
Clarkesworld Magazine
Collagist, The
Colorado Review
Colored Chalk (multiple acceptances)
Comet Press
Conjunctions
Contrary
Copper Nickel
Crazyhorse
Cream City Review
Crimefactory (accepted)
Crimewave
Criminal Element
Dark Discoveries
Dark Horizons
Dark Sky Magazine
decomP
Descant (Canada)
DIAGRAM
Dimensions Books
Dirty Noir (accepted)
Dogmatika (accepted)
DOGZPLOT
Drollerie Press
Dzanc Books
Electric Literature
Electric Velocipede
Eleven Eleven
elimae
Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine
Emerson Review, The
Emprise Review (accepted)
Etchings
Existere – Journal of Arts and Literature
Fantasy and Science Fiction
Fantasy Magazine
Featherproof Books
Fence
Fiction International
Fifth Wednesday Journal
Flambard Press
Flying Pen Press
Freight Stories
FRiGG
Fringe
Frogmore Papers
Fugue
Fugue State Press
Full of Crow Quarterly Fiction
Gargoyle (accepted)
Going Down Swinging (AU)
Gold Dust (accepted)
Granta
Grave Tales
Graywolf Press
Grist: The Journal for Writers
GUD: Greatest Uncommon Denominator
Hayden’s Ferry Review
Hobart
Horror Zine, The
Hotel St. George Press
Ideomancer
Ig Publishing
Ilura Press
Indiana Review
Interfictions
Interzone
Jabberwocky
Juked
Kenyon Review
Keyhole Magazine
kill author
KNOCK
Lake Effect
L’Allure des Mots
Leodegraunce (accepted)
Lightspeed
Literary Fever
LITRO: Stories Transport You
MacAdam/Cage Publishing
MAKE: A Chicago Literary Magazine
Manic D Press
Maverick Magazine (closed)
McSweeney’s Books
McSweeney’s Internet Tendency
McSweeney’s Quarterly
Meanjin
Medallion Press
Memorious
Metazen (accepted)
Midnight Echo
Midwestern Gothic
Missouri Review
Monkeybicycle
Moon Milk Review
Morrigan Books
Mundania Press
Murky Depths (accepted)
Natural Bridge
Neon
Nefarious Muse (twice)
Nerve.com
New England Review
New Genre
New Horizons
New Ohio Review (NOR)
New Orleans Review
New York Tyrant
New Yorker, The
Night Shade Books
Night Train
Ninth Letter
Not One of Us
NO COLONY
NO Journal
Noon Annual
Normal School, The
Not One of Us
Notes from the Underground
Offense Mechanisms
Omnidawn
On Spec
One Buck Horror
One Story
Opium Magazine (accepted)
Orson Scott Card’s Intergalactic Medicine Show
Otherworld Publications (novel accepted)
Out of the Gutter Magazine
Outsider Writers Collective (accepted)
PANK (accepted)
Paris Review
Pear Noir! (accepted)
Pedestal Magazine
Permanent Press Publishing Company, The
Permuted Press
Phoebe
Pill Hill Press
Plots With Guns (excerpt)
Ploughshares
Poisoned Pen Press
Post Road Magazine
Prime Books
Pseudopod
Quick Fiction
Raleigh Review
Rambler, The
Red Hen Press
Redivider
Revolution House
River Styx
Rotten Leaves (accepted)
Salamander
Salt Hill
Sententia
Severed Press
ShadowCast Audio Anthology
Shadows & Tall Trees
Sheepshead Review
Shimmer
Shock Totem
Short, Fast and Deadly
Shotgun Honey (accepted)
Shroud Magazine
Shroud Publishing
Sideshow Fables (co-editor)
Sleepingfish
Slice Magazine
Smokelong Quarterly
Snowbooks
Snubnose Press (accepted)
Soho Press
Southeast Review, The
Southern Review, The
Spinetingler (excerpt)
Steampunk Tales
StepAway Magazine (accepted)
Storyglossia
Strange Horizons
Stymie Magazine
subTerrain Magazine
Subtropics
Summerset Review, The
Tarpaulin Sky Literary Journal
Theaker’s Quarterly Fiction
Thieves Jargon
Third Coast
Threepenny Review
Thunderdome: The Writer’s Collection (accepted)
Tin House
Titular
Tor.com
Torque Press
Troubadour 21 (accepted)
Twelve Stories
Twist of Noir, A
Vain Magazine (accepted, excerpt)
Vestal Review
Virginia Quarterly Review
Weave Magazine
Weird Tales
Whitewash Dreamz
Wild Child Publishing
Willow Springs
Withersin Magazine (excerpt)
Zoetrope: All-Story
Zone 3
Zouch
Zumaya Publications

Randy D. Rubin
07-31-2011, 02:57 PM
OH MY GOD! Richard thank you for this!!!! This is an amazing list! I'm stupefied by how many markets you have. I'm gonna shop 'em all until somebody says yes. Thanks again for this gigantic post of markets to try. Whoa... do I feel like an amatuerish whiny-baby now! Awesome list, my brother! Thank you.

ozmosis7
07-31-2011, 03:56 PM
Yes, thanks very much for the list Richard. You must put in some heavy work towards subbing. I've never done SS at all. I wonder if I can muster up the energy to do such a thing LOL.

Andrew
07-31-2011, 06:48 PM
Very helpful information, Richard. Great list and great stats--very encouraging and enlightening. Thank you.

I'll just add this to your discussion, seconding what Richard said. You all definitely should simultaneously submit (assuming the markets you're submitting to allow it). I've only had a few stories published, but I have a tale of two stories that proved it for me. I wrote a story in 2005 that every friend, colleague, or classmate whom I showed it to absolutely loved. I sent it out, got it rejected, and then promptly sent it out again. Doing it this way, one journal at a time, it took 5 years and about 15 rejections before it was finally accepted. I tweaked it from time to time, but it was basically the same story. I was happy because my persistence paid off. However, I wrote another story last year I thought was of the same quality. I didn't have the patience to wait 5 years for it to see print, so I started sending it out to multiple places. I made sure it was under consideration at 5 places at all times. It took about one year to get accepted. Both stories were rejected about the same number of times by literary journals, but one story took 5 years to get accepted and one story took only 1 year. It taught me a valuable lesson: simultaneously submit.

Now I do that with all my stories. My goal this year is to get 100 rejections. I don't even have a target of acceptances. It sounds crazy, but that's the way I've trained myself to think. When the rejections come back, I'm almost glad because that means I'm closer to my goal and I get to send out more stories. It's very heartening to see you, Richard, putting up big rejection numbers as well. You're absolutely right: There's no way to get one or two stories published without getting 5, 10, or 20 times (or more) that in rejections. At least when you're starting out.

Thanks for the great discussion.

RichardThomas
07-31-2011, 10:07 PM
glad to help guys, just do your research and make sure if you're doing dark fiction or horror you don't send your work to literary publications - Duotrope.com i keep saying it, only way to roll, let me know if you need help understanding the site, it's the only way i can submit and do research

RJHubbard53
08-01-2011, 02:48 PM
yes, it seems simultaneous submit seems the way to go. As a newbie, I dont have a lot of material and sending it one-by-one and waiting for rejections or acceptance before resubmitting will definitely take a long time

ozmosis7
09-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Bah, rejection after being shortlisted for a very long time. Time to rewrite and send it back out.

mercuryval
09-05-2011, 11:36 AM
Bah, rejection after being shortlisted for a very long time. Time to rewrite and send it back out.

Bummer, Ozmosis, but the fact that the editor held the story so long is a testament to its quality. Don't give up on it!

Craig Wallwork
09-05-2011, 04:37 PM
Yes, what she said. ^

Keep pushing through, Ken.

ozmosis7
09-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Not really a rejection, but my story from the CD contest was in the queue. Curious as to how things will shake out in the future for a great publication...

http://weirdtalesmagazine.com/2011/09/25/a-message-to-all-writers-with-current-submissions-in-the-queue/

RichardThomas
09-27-2011, 03:15 PM
thanks for this, i had one in the queue too, sucks - not happy with the way things are changing over at WT

peteOcha
09-27-2011, 03:59 PM
Not really a rejection, but my story from the CD contest was in the queue. Curious as to how things will shake out in the future for a great publication...

http://weirdtalesmagazine.com/2011/09/25/a-message-to-all-writers-with-current-submissions-in-the-queue/

Bummer. Hope things get sorted out quickly after the changes.

mercuryval
09-28-2011, 11:32 AM
I had one over there, too. Hope the new magazine works out...

Ben Staad
09-29-2011, 03:21 AM
I was actually glad when I saw that message from Weird...They had a story from me which was not ready to be submitted. I was caught up in a submission frenzy and let myself get carried away. After I submitting the damn thing I did another re-read and wished I could do a rewind on the whole process.

HorrorScribe
09-30-2011, 08:45 PM
I'm another writer with a story in the queue over at Weird Tales. So much for that. Though I seem to recall having found another "home" for that particular story. I was waiting to hear back from WT first. Well, time to reach out to the other publication now.

ozmosis7
10-11-2011, 07:46 PM
Not really a rejection, but just received copies of an anthology I was supposed to be in. Turns out they missed me somehow!!! Felt like a kid on Christmas, who ripped open their presents only to find they were someone else's. Sigh!

mlouisdixon
10-11-2011, 09:44 PM
WTF? That's just wrong. Sorry to hear that man.

MLD

ozmosis7
10-11-2011, 10:05 PM
Ya, they did apologize and refunded my money, let me keep the books. But it was really deflating. I've asked for a letter releasing me from any sort of contract just in case. No word on that yet, although I am sure it wouldn't matter as they seem to have broken it already LOL. Trying to keep my spirits up and all, but I was really looking forward to this one.

peteOcha
10-11-2011, 10:14 PM
Wow, sorry to hear that! They must really have shitty organizational skills or something to forget about an author in their anthology...

mercuryval
10-12-2011, 11:57 AM
Wow, bad luck! Sorry to hear it. :(

Ben Staad
10-12-2011, 01:55 PM
Wow Oz that really blows. I can't fathom how that must have felt...sorry :(

RichardThomas
10-12-2011, 03:33 PM
^ what? that's not acceptable. have you talked to the press/editor yet? which anthology was it? i'd raise hell. if they do another one, then you should be in it, no questions asked. otherwise, they owe you something for that screw up. man, that sucks. sorry to hear it.

ozmosis7
10-12-2011, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the support all. This was a newer press, and I know one of the guys running it. I don't want to out them in a public forum, as I don't think that is appropriate. When they were getting started I threw them a freebie to help them out. Perhaps this is what makes it sting so bad. They have refunded my money, let me keep the books, apologized, and even offered to put the story in another anthology.

But, I think I will polish it up and take it elsewhere personally. I'm sort of soured on these types of "for the love" presses now. The only reason I sent them a story in the first place is their stated intention was to pay in the future. Supporting future paying markets helps them become such. It is clear their stated intention is not being followed through on, though.

Most of my sadness in this was wanting to see the story in print, waiting for it, and then bang...nada. It should be a relative easier sell than most of my prose as it has a Sci-Fi feel to it.

Craig Wallwork
10-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Man, that's crap, Ken. I would have been pissed. Sorry to hear that.

ozmosis7
10-28-2011, 06:13 PM
Sad days. I see Murky Depths just decided to close their doors.

RichardThomas
10-28-2011, 06:17 PM
^what? that's horrible, i just published with them this year, wow, and they won a big award last year too, what happened? links?

EDIT: AH, got the email, here's a link to the post too: http://lucifal.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/murky-depths-demise/

RJHubbard53
10-29-2011, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I just got an email from Murky Depths - I had a story with them that was under real consideration. Shame they're closing shop.

ozmosis7
10-29-2011, 04:37 PM
I agree. Seeing too many shop doors closing as of late.

RJHubbard53
10-29-2011, 08:52 PM
is it possible that print perodicals are on their way out in favor of eBooks, etc? I guess I never noticed if Weird Tales or Murky Depths were available on the kindle

ozmosis7
10-29-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't think it will ever be on the way out entirely, not as long as people/collector's/enthusiast enjoy holding the real thing in their hands. This being said I prefer to read digital copies of books or listen to them on audio. I display my books proudly, though, what little I have. I do think you will see a vast movement towards self-publishing in the future, especially with Amazon saying they will crack down on that end of the market. We will have to see how things unfold, but keep your eyes peeled.

mlouisdixon
11-04-2011, 05:40 PM
Just got a really long form rejection letter from Machine Of Death 2. Now the hard part, how do I modify this story to be able to submit elsewhere?

MLD

ozmosis7
11-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Sorry to hear that MLD. I'm jumping every time my email beeps waiting to hear back about my submission. I've chewed off all my fingernails and have begun on the fingers themselves. I hope they get to me before my hands are gone.

mlouisdixon
11-07-2011, 09:10 PM
What up Ken? In or out? Just curious.

MLD

Randy D. Rubin
02-10-2012, 06:49 PM
I can't believe no one's been here since November of last year. So no one has the blues any more? Or has this become a rejection-free zone. I couldn't land a story on a real life-sized aircraft carrier with friggin' paper airplanes. How come nobody loves me? I get these 'your story was absolutely fabulous it just doesn't quite fit what we're looking for.' here at Dark Darkness Darkening's darker than Darkness Darkening's, Scared of the Dark Anthology. Sorry, great idea though. What kind of shit is that?

ozmosis7
02-11-2012, 01:27 PM
Sorry, MLD, I must have missed this. I got my rejection towards the end somewhere. I ended up throwing it in my These Old Tales Volume Two, as it was kind of a specialized story. Right now I have a lot out there, received a few rejections and a couple acceptances, but I'm out of the "blues" for now. I've been writing like a madman this year. The waiting is the hardest part.

@Randy Sounds like that story might sell well elsewhere.

Randy D. Rubin
02-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Okay should I jump up and down if my story made a short list at wicked east press? They are saying that it might take a couple of months to decide about publication; does that seem right to anyone who has published?

C.W. LaSart
02-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Okay should I jump up and down if my story made a short list at wicked east press? They are saying that it might take a couple of months to decide about publication; does that seem right to anyone who has published?Wicked East puts out a bunch of anthologies. I bet they are just covering bases and won't take that long, but if I'm right-there is one main editor who does all of the work so maybe. Some places are quicker than others. If they say a couple months, then don't get bummed if you don't hear from them for awhile. Good luck! PS-which antho is it for?

Randy D. Rubin
02-13-2012, 02:36 PM
The anthology is titled Chained in the Attic, Cee Dub. I'm so excited about this I could burst! Good morning Ozmo! How's that Schnozmo? I little poem inspired by your recent nose job.

ozmosis7
02-13-2012, 03:11 PM
LOL, thanks. Pain came late last night, for the first real time. My eyes have gone bloodshot and I can't see straight, but I'm forcing myself to work through it. At least I am getting a little writing done, as I have much to do this first quarter.

Randy D. Rubin
02-13-2012, 04:11 PM
Me too, Ozmo. I've told myself that I'm going to publish this year no matter what so I'm shopping out a lot of my stories and writing constantly on this zombie piece. It's good to be working and have the story juices flowing again.

Randy D. Rubin
02-22-2012, 07:44 PM
I got a nicely worded rejection from The Torn Realities Anthology Editor and I feel both bummed and thankful for the critique. So far, ladies and gentlemen, I still suck. Oh well, back to the grindstone. I have some serious writing to do. This is my year, folks. I can feel it in me weary old bones... someone is gonna love me soon, I just feel it.

TerryE
02-22-2012, 08:07 PM
You got a rejection with a critique? That's not sucking. You're on the right track. Was this the one that you made the short list on?

Hedda Gabler
02-22-2012, 08:31 PM
You tried! That's not sucking.

And if you got any kind of feedback, well that's just icing on at least a couple cakes.

Randy D. Rubin
02-23-2012, 08:49 AM
No, this was a different anthology. Thanks for the kind words, my friends. It will happen soon, I just have to keep at it and keep at it. I heard Dr Seuss was rejected 37 times before someone said the magic words, 'Hey that rhymes... and that rhymes too... and these two sentences sound the same... what a concept. It's way too slow for me but I'll bet kids would love this rhymey shit. Let's take a chance." And the rest, as they say, is publishing history.

mlouisdixon
02-23-2012, 05:54 PM
Many rejections and no sales but I'm cool with that. I'll just keep coming up with better stories and something will happen.
I recently lost my job and have been spending a lot of my writing time working on computer certifications.
I've got a contract job starting soon so it's not all bleak.

Posting our rejections is a good way to share our frustrations and not feel so alone, but the reason I don't post is it seems negative to me. I want to focus on my achievements. I'd much rather tell you about my successes. I don't think it's bad to post our rejections though. It's important to have a way to reach out and share our ups and downs when what we do is so solitary.

MLD

Randy D. Rubin
02-23-2012, 08:49 PM
You're absolutely right. I spend countless hours in front of this screen A) because I love to write stories that I hope entertain people and B) it is one of the only times I can be alone in a house full of three generations of family and the chaos that goes with it.

TerryE
03-02-2012, 08:59 PM
Well, I didn't win the Lilja's Library contest. Darn! I was hoping for that gift edition of IT.

Randy D. Rubin
03-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Sorry to hear that , my friend.

ozmosis7
03-03-2012, 12:53 AM
Well, at least you tried, and for a hell of a gift too. You'll get 'em next time, Terry.

Randy D. Rubin
03-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Got another rejection; this time from Shock Totem. They don't hurt like they used to. I'll just shoot 'em... a different story I suppose. Had you going there for a bit, didn't I?

Craig Wallwork
03-06-2012, 05:00 PM
It's not so much the rejection that hurts; it's knowing that there's shit out there getting published.

Randy D. Rubin
03-06-2012, 05:07 PM
On that I so agree. I was going to send a story to this one magazine that I thought looked promising and the editor of the rag had a short story of his own on the site that was so incoherent and addle brained that I figured I don't want what I have associated with the magazine. The sentence structures were like sixty plus words of depressing adjectives strung together in one sentence that made no sense at all.

Craig Wallwork
03-06-2012, 05:09 PM
Terrible isn't it? I get very depressed at bookstores these days.

Randy D. Rubin
03-06-2012, 05:13 PM
I hope that doesn't make me sound too hoighty-toighty or uppity being this new to the game but I know shite when I read it. Magazine editor or seventh grade composition class.

Craig Wallwork
03-06-2012, 05:15 PM
No. Your opinion is as valid as any seasoned writer. More so. If you're a reader, then in my opinion you're the authority on what makes a good book/story, not the writer.

RichardThomas
03-06-2012, 07:53 PM
keep trying. just got a recent rejection from ST too, but the story wasn't straight horror. i keep trying to stretch them, but they don't LIKE IT. :-)

C.W. LaSart
03-06-2012, 08:20 PM
Shock Totem is a hard one I hear. I haven't tried them yet, but they are on my list for the year :)

RichardThomas
03-06-2012, 08:25 PM
you haven't even TRIED them yet? come on, girl. we're all naked and embarrassed out here in the water, join us! i think they just like straight up horror, and i actually have a hard time writing that. i write dark, sure, but it tends to veer into the grotesque or noirish or fantastic. or i just suck.

C.W. LaSart
03-06-2012, 08:58 PM
Hmmmm. I am more of a straight up horror gal. They were on my list for last year when I started, but around this time I got the contract for DMB and quit submitting elsewhere for the rest of the year (mostly, a few odd submissions still snuck out when I wasn't looking!). I need to get back to submitting again now that Ad Nauseam is out. I've been lazy :)

C.W. LaSart
03-06-2012, 08:59 PM
AND I love naked, embarrassed men in the water :cool:

RichardThomas
03-06-2012, 09:30 PM
well show me the way, because i can't figure it out.

C.W. LaSart
03-06-2012, 09:41 PM
well show me the way, because i can't figure it out.If only I knew the formula, I would write a book :)

Randy D. Rubin
03-07-2012, 12:41 AM
Hey that's not really what it looks like; its just that the water is really cold tonight.

C.W. LaSart
03-07-2012, 12:56 AM
That's what they ALL say Randy!

Randy D. Rubin
03-07-2012, 12:58 AM
and a happy Tuesday to you too, Cee Dub. How are you this fine evening?

C.W. LaSart
03-07-2012, 02:04 AM
Quite well, and yourself? I've been arguing with idiots online, something I rarely do, and now I'm ornery :)

RichardThomas
03-08-2012, 09:14 PM
^man, i'm sitting right here. harsh.




;)

C.W. LaSart
03-08-2012, 10:47 PM
^man, i'm sitting right here. Harsh.




;) lmao! :d

C.W. LaSart
03-08-2012, 10:47 PM
My smiley broke :mad:

Randy D. Rubin
03-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Got a delightful rejection from Stan stating that his staff liked my latest attempt at publication but it just isn't quite what they're looking for, so once again the axe doth fall. I think my smiley might be breaking too, Cee Dub.:(

C.W. LaSart
03-14-2012, 06:45 PM
Sorry Randy :( Have you read any of the issues? I will admit that they seem to be all over the board sometimes with what they want. I don't even submit anymore. When Stan thinks a subject is up my alley, he usually asks if I have anything for him. I love DMD, but I think this year I will be branching out and trying for the pros.

Randy D. Rubin
03-14-2012, 08:02 PM
I look at The Horror Tree and Ralan and Duotrope. I try to match up what I have to what I think they are looking for and then I get these and its like I'm reading Chinese algebra and evidently didn't understand what EXACTLY they wanted ORRRR They're just being polite by saying, your story is well written and entertaining but its just not what we're looking for so... so sorry; me love you long time, G.I. try another fortune cookie.

RichardThomas
03-15-2012, 12:36 AM
Sorry, Randy, but keep trying. I like Shroud, Shock Totem, Shimmer, One Buck Horror, Bull Spec, Apex, ChiZine, Clarkesworld, F&SF, Weird Tales, GUD, etc.

Randy D. Rubin
03-15-2012, 09:15 AM
Thanks Richard. I'll give them all a try. And thank you Cee Dub. You both helped me fix my smiley.

C.W. LaSart
03-15-2012, 03:37 PM
:)

Xiabei
03-19-2012, 06:43 AM
I sent a poem to the New Yorker, but they declined. Perhaps they realized it was making fun of the types of poems they usually print... but that's ok, I've got more where that came from!

Ben Staad
03-20-2012, 02:58 AM
I sent a poem to the New Yorker, but they declined. Perhaps they realized it was making fun of the types of poems they usually print... but that's ok, I've got more where that came from!

Sorry that they declined however I'm giving you HUGE props for your attitude. Keep submitting...

Randy D. Rubin
03-20-2012, 07:47 PM
Hey, how are you? Is it bad form or rude if you submit a story to a publishing house and they don't acknowledge receipt of your tale? I had the most embarrassing thing happen to me and now I'm not sure how to proceed. I'll do the synopsis version-- by the grace of God duotrope came out with a miracle market for that love story that I wrote a while back that came in at 19k (novellas are a bitch to place and a good, Christian themed story is just as hard to place... oh yeah... with profanity in it. So I read the website submission guide and for some dumb-ass reason I thought it said Single spacing required. I took out the profanity and sent a single to the publisher. I was also submitting that Zombie Western that I just completed to another publisher. You guessed it... that one wanted the single spacing. I was like, Son-of-a Bit. and recopied my double spaced version ( the one with the one word of profanity in it (an F-bomb) and sent that with an apology letter for being so stupid... uh unprofessional... computer illiterate. Any way they now have three versions of the story and I haven't heard anything back saying they have any versions. Should I bother these people a fourth time to see if they received it in any version? Is that totally amatuerish?

ozmosis7
03-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Hmm...tough call. Mistakes happen, though. Anyone who doesn't see that is either being a bit self-righteous or ignorant.

I once sent a publisher the wrong story altogether and he didn't even notice. I had to query him, and he was very cool about it. He even said he liked the story, made some positive comments about it, and asked me to send in something else. So it worked out well for me, and he was very understanding.

On the submission notice front, there are quite a few who don't send out notices. Some don't even send rejection notices, let alone one saying they received it. It sure doesn't do anything to sooth the writer in either case LOL. I try to keep in mind what they must go through daily, and it is likely hectic. Thus far, all but two have gotten back to me.

For your particular case, it is difficult. A fourth time might be make you come off a bit crazy, but then again, writers can be a paranoid bunch. I know I get that way about sending stuff out. If you think it will make or break you, I would apologize like nuts and hit them up. If it likely won't change anything I'd leave it alone as is.

Perhaps, one of the editors here might offer you better advice, but this is what I have for you.

C.W. LaSart
03-20-2012, 08:22 PM
Check the submission guidelines and duotrope again, it might mention the usual timeframe for acknowledgement. I would wait a while before contacting them again. Waiting is hard, but par for the course. You don't want to come off as unsettled....even if you are :)

Randy D. Rubin
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
Thanks guys and gals. I'm just having one of those crazy weeks. I'm going too fast and have too many things on my plate. The guidelines mention three to five days for the Love and ninety days for the Zombie story. I guess I'm impetuous and expect a 'yes we've received it but no we're not reading it for a few weeks so leave us alone' and I'm good with that. Lots of love everyone and thanks for being there. I'll wait patiently and keep my fingers crossed. ('course then I can't finish this story called Runner's High that I'm working on, so I'll uncross them to type.)

ozmosis7
03-20-2012, 10:56 PM
Not really rejection, but it fits here as well as anywhere. Found out both volumes of my These Old Tales series have been pirated. They even bothered to convert the file format LOL.

Randy D. Rubin
03-20-2012, 11:33 PM
Gosh Ozmo you can't catch a break. What does that mean exactly? Someone is downloading both of your volumes or selling it as something else under someone else's name?

ozmosis7
03-21-2012, 12:08 AM
They are making them available for download on some sharing site.

Randy D. Rubin
03-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Is this from Amazon or whomever allowing it to be free for one day like I've seen them do Brian's 'Seven Stories' and other writer's work for one day only or for one weekend only? If in fact you give it away is it then free domain legally? I'm SO NOT versed on this new Kindle-Amazon-Nook-E-book- free reads marketing. Where can one find out the ins and outs of this new frontier?

ozmosis7
03-21-2012, 11:39 AM
No. If you make your price zero, than it is just that, free for people to download. It doesn't make it free to distribute afterward when the price returns to normal. In fact, some of the books I am grouped with might not have even been free before. I only glanced at the list, but I saw Graham Masterson in there. I'm thinking he likely doesn't need to do the "free" thing to gain readability, but I could be wrong.

If you want to read about the DMCA there is a write-up on Wikipedia, as well as the government sites of course. If you are interested in learning about the Kindle Select program...

https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/signin

Randy D. Rubin
03-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Thanks Ozmo.

mlouisdixon
04-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Nothing but form rejections lately. I really need to focus on getting more out in circulation. I think I'm too much of a perfectionist. Everything I write feels like crap. I edit the shit out of it and then months later I finally send it out. I think I should set a goal of one story every two weeks--or less.

MLD

RichardThomas
04-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Nothing but form rejections lately. I really need to focus on getting more out in circulation. I think I'm too much of a perfectionist. Everything I write feels like crap. I edit the shit out of it and then months later I finally send it out. I think I should set a goal of one story every two weeks--or less.

MLD

I feel your pain, brother. Keep at it. I've had 27 rejections already this year.

As for ST, somebody was talking about them, I just sent them another story. It feels like a good fit, and I hope they take it. We'll see!

Oh, and as for keeping on your toes, I'm a member and columnist over at Litreactor.com, come on over. We're in the middle of a tournament where you write a new story every two weeks, an NCAA style set of brackets. We'll be starting up a new one in a few weeks.

peteOcha
04-17-2012, 03:45 PM
Like the brackets idea, sounds fun!

need to get back to writing stuff as it has been ages since I've sat down and written. Have to get some ideas on paper...

Randy D. Rubin
04-21-2012, 04:36 PM
I just finished another tale called, The Delightful Aroma of Rubber Cement. I keep getting shot down with rejections as well my friends. Here lately, nothing I'm working on fits anyone's anthology theme or monthly magazine theme. It's so disheartening sometimes.

C.W. LaSart
04-21-2012, 05:40 PM
It's like that, Randy. Sometimes nothing fits, then a few months later you sell a ton. It will get better.

RichardThomas
04-21-2012, 07:13 PM
you need some ideas, Randy? shoot me a PM and tell me more about the story, maybe i can give you some places.

Randy D. Rubin
04-23-2012, 01:26 AM
Thanks Richard. If you'd like, I'll do you one better and send the story to you. Send me an E-mail address and I'll send it to you as an attachment to an E-mail if you'd like. That's the only way I know how to send it. Maybe if you have time you could point out some flaws or weaknesses I need to work on? Or tell me its a publishable/sellable product? I know you're really busy and I'm probably being forward but I'm kind of proud of how it turned out.

Randy D. Rubin
04-23-2012, 01:45 AM
Well Richard...here it comes my friend. I hope it reached you.

RichardThomas
04-23-2012, 02:58 AM
got it. will take a look.

Randy D. Rubin
04-23-2012, 03:37 AM
Awesome, Thanks.

Randy D. Rubin
04-25-2012, 01:59 AM
Just got a fresh rejection and a form rejection at that. Please Lord, let's break the cycle of rejections. I need one more published piece. Come On Randy, Find something totally crazy good to write. Something awesome this way comes...

RichardThomas
04-25-2012, 02:50 AM
dude, if i don't get a rejection a DAY i feel like i'm not pushing it enough. keep at it. i have 68 submissions out right now.

Randy D. Rubin
04-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Maybe I should start a 'rejection of the day' desk calender for next year like those 'joke of the day' or 'word of the day' desk calenders. At least find a way to make a profit out of all these... these... little paper bastards. What do you think, my friends?

RichardThomas
04-25-2012, 07:26 PM
that's too funny.

mlouisdixon
06-15-2012, 01:34 PM
Hi Everyone,

Sorry I don't come here much anymore. My new job is with the state of Texas and they forbid it. I'm glad I found a way to hook my laptop to the Internet through my phone. I'm trying to write in the mornings before I start work. It's something anyhow.

I just got my first, somewhat, personal rejection. It came from The Puritan magazine. They told me that I made it to the top tier of the editorial process but had to pass this time. Of course they encourage me to submit something else. I've been rejected by them in the past and it was a much shorter form rejection. So, that's good news. I must be getting better.

Hope all is going well with you folks.

Oh yeah, I just finished my last two articles for the final issue of Dark Recesses Magazine. We are waiting on Jeff Strand and Cody Goodfellow to submit their's, and then it will be time to publish. It's kind of sad to be saying goodbye to DR, but it will certainly free up my time for myself.

Later people,

MLD

Ben Staad
06-17-2012, 02:29 AM
Hi Everyone,

Sorry I don't come here much anymore. My new job is with the state of Texas and they forbid it. I'm glad I found a way to hook my laptop to the Internet through my phone. I'm trying to write in the mornings before I start work. It's something anyhow.

I just got my first, somewhat, personal rejection. It came from The Puritan magazine. They told me that I made it to the top tier of the editorial process but had to pass this time. Of course they encourage me to submit something else. I've been rejected by them in the past and it was a much shorter form rejection. So, that's good news. I must be getting better.

Hope all is going well with you folks.

Oh yeah, I just finished my last two articles for the final issue of Dark Recesses Magazine. We are waiting on Jeff Strand and Cody Goodfellow to submit their's, and then it will be time to publish. It's kind of sad to be saying goodbye to DR, but it will certainly free up my time for myself.

Later people,

MLD

Sorry to hear about the rejection however it sounds like you were close. Good luck with the final issue of DR and keep plugging away!

EnemyAce
10-08-2012, 08:53 PM
I wouldn't get too worked up about it. A recent Amazon book club rated "The Great Gatsby" somewhere between so-so and poor.

Keep plugging!

Lucian Poll
10-27-2012, 06:32 PM
I got a form rejection from Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine yesterday after four days. While I'm mightily impressed with their turnaround it does leave me worried for my story!

On a different tack, I've bookmarked Richard's incredible list of markets from page 7 of this thread, even if it's a little old now. My belated thanks, Richard!

Martin
10-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Don't let a rejection worry you about a story. There are many things that have nothing to do with the story's qualities that will effect a certain publications decision.
I got a form rejection from Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine yesterday after four days. While I'm mightily impressed with their turnaround it does leave me worried for my story!

On a different tack, I've bookmarked Richard's incredible list of markets from page 7 of this thread, even if it's a little old now. My belated thanks, Richard!

Randy D. Rubin
10-28-2012, 02:58 AM
Keep at it my friend. Remember tough skin keeps the adrenaline in when you get one accepted. I'm getting a butt load of rejections again. I know how it sucks, in fact we all do, brother. Don't give up!

Lucian Poll
10-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Thanks, Martin. Thanks, Randy. (How's Dr Poll? :) )

Duotrope has Ellery Queen showing a 0% acceptance rate, so it shouldn't come as a shock. Next I'll try Lamplight, also showing a 0% acceptance rate!

Glutton for punishment? Me? You bet!

ozmosis7
10-28-2012, 02:49 PM
Sorry for the rejection. Remember, not everyone uses Duotrope. Several authors have their own methods and as a case in point, I know one publication that claimed to have almost 2000 submissions and yet only a little over 100 were showing on Duotrope. And I know a few of those authors who do not use Duotrope and were rejected. There are many methods out there and I think it almost becomes writer's superstition as to what works best.

As to the 0% acceptance rate, keep in mind that they may not have received enough acceptances to come up with an exact percentage. Duotrope is an automated service, but because of "outliers" an acceptance may not register until a non-outlier acceptance occurs. And the outliers seem to happen for several reasons, of which I am not aware of all, but basically it is anything out of the norm.

A great tool of Duuotrope that I have become fond of is the RSS. You can hookup a newsreader to the markets you have submitted to and see results individually or as a group. It is interesting. For instance, right now I have about 17 stories out and for all of those markets over the last week I have seen zilch as far as acceptances go. So when you see a 1% acceptance rate it is likely to be much smaller than that given the number of people who do not use Duotrope mixed in with those results. You can however see patterns of activity. It is very interesting.

I will say I am quite humbled by the sheer number of rejections versus acceptances that I see through the RSS. But it shouldn't intimidate you. They have to accept some stories or they wouldn't have a publication. All you can do is always put your best foot forward and have a little hope. Keep grinding away and it will happen if you are determined.

But even then there are many opportunities far and beyond the pro markets, or even the semipro. It just depends on what your agenda/plan is and how you see yourself progressing as a writer. For me, my collection These Old Tales was me putting an end to a chapter in my writing career. I needed to move past those stories to grow and yet I felt many of them had some worth. You can only rewrite the same tale so many times I suppose.

Hope this helps. And I echo the quote Richard often says, Onward and Upward.

Lucian Poll
10-28-2012, 05:09 PM
Hi Oz, thanks for the support and for the insight.

I signed up to Duotrope last week so I'm feeling my way around at the moment. I like what I see, though, particularly as I hadn't found a good way of keeping track of my submissions. (And I've only made a handful so far! :rolleyes: ) I agree that the stats are only a flavour of a particular market and are subject to the whims of both the honour system Duotrope operates and the quality of its data, being subject to the sample size relative to the market. For example, Ellery Queen's stats were based on a sample size of 186 reports (mine included), which would be a small proportion of the total submissions the magazine receives during a 12 month period. That said, it seems to be a decent indicator of a tough market.

As for the plan, I'd love to have a story published in a fiction magazine (given their collectability), or a webzine, as it would validate my writing and ideas, plus it all helps build my (assumed) name. But this is all leading to the big write next month. The novel that results from NaNoWriMo, once polished and edited, will be the one I throw everything behind, either on my own or, hope upon hope, with an agent or publisher. I feel the hook of the novel is marketable, filmable, and, to the best of my knowledge, unique, and if I don't give it a shot it'll plague me 'til the end of my days. I'm fully prepared for falling flat on my face, but it'd be great to announce it here next year and hear some of you say "Damn, I want to read that!"

And I fully agree, onward and upward!

ozmosis7
10-28-2012, 07:59 PM
I use Duotrope together with a system of folders I developed (for backing up files) over many years of being a graphic designer. I sue this system of folders to line up places I plan to send to and to keep track locally of those I have sent to including all of the emails/files used. With each rejection I do an edit on the story, sometimes even a total rewrite if I decide I don't like it. My writing seems to be changing a lot lately, so I always want to make sure I give myself the best chance.

Another thing to remember is a story can be killer and even the editors might agree upon that. But maybe it just doesn't fit what they plan to do in the immediate future or ever for that matter. I've seen some editors mention cutting very good stories that they wished they could keep.

Good luck with Nano. I tried that last year but ended up having to set the effort aside for edits on book 2 of my series. I have a concept I am working on now that an agent is interested in, but she is more focused on science fiction than the horror side. I prefer o be able to write in both or a mixture if possible. We'll see. I have 2 books out and 2 more scheduled for release, all coming in at around 65-75k words, but this will be my first full length novel. I may send it around to some agents or bigger markets to see how it fares. Right now I'm trying to clear my workload so that I can devote all of my time to it.

This idea has been received well, but I think the next book will be stellar. It is one of those I can't stop working on, knowing I want to wait, but not being able to. :P

Anyway, make sure above all else you are enjoying the writing. Good luck! Keep us all informed how you are doing with it.

Lucian Poll
10-29-2012, 12:08 AM
I've a similar system in so much that it involves documents, covering letters, files, folders and Duotrope! I'll get the hang of it, I'm sure.

Interesting to hear you were a graphic designer, Oz. I'm currently doing the cover art for my NaNo novel in GIMP, which is looking pretty snazzy (blows own trumpet). My early efforts with Inkscape yielded a nifty cover for The Buskers' Union, which you can see on my blog or on Amazon, not to mention the Lucian Poll calling card you see on the left.

Thanks again for the support. The story has now been submitted to Lamplight, which is an interesting new magazine for dark fiction. It offers professional rates too and the debut issue is free to download. Definitely worth a look.

In the meantime I wish you the best of luck in reeling-in the agent. It sounds like you've got a lot of irons in the fire! I'll keep plugging away at the stories, the novel and the ideas, and when I've got a nice juicy worm wriggling on the end of my hook I'll dangle it on a thread here and see who I can attract!

ozmosis7
10-29-2012, 01:23 AM
The cover looks cool. I've fooled around with Gimp some, but have to spend more time with it. I've seen some people do amazing stuff with that software.

Yeah, I spent over 20 years in graphic design before I burned out on 7 days a week without ever seeing my family. I got out right before the company went under, so I spared myself a lot of heartache. My wife pushed me into writing with any seriousness and I thank her every day for it. But I am sure there will come a time when I need something to be around people again. I'm getting a little bored talking to the dogs and all. ;)

You can see a small portion of my work at the end of the biography page on my website. Also, although I hired an artist for the picture, I did the the rest of the work for These Old Tales. I also illustrated all of my own children's books in my sidebar. I removed a lot of it, though. While I enjoy it and don't mind doing it, I didn't want it to become the focus. :cool:

I don't get around all the forums as much as I used to, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

RichardThomas
10-29-2012, 02:46 AM
martin, don't worry about EQ, they're tough to get into. and there are a handful of professional markets that respond quickly. here's my current list of markets, over 300 at this point, i think, not just horror, but a wide range of publications.

http://whatdoesnotkillme.com/2009/07/28/richards-submissions/

it also shows where i've been published so maybe that will help, since i assume we both write dark stories.

ozmosis7
10-29-2012, 04:11 AM
Are all of those paying markets, Richard? And if so, at what threshold?

Randy D. Rubin
10-29-2012, 09:06 AM
That's one hell of a list, Ricardo. Thanks my friend. There are many wells here I've yet to tap.